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 Post subject: Re: Momentum
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:52 pm 
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So did anyone else lose their will to live after reading this thread?

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 Post subject: Re: Momentum
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:53 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
So did anyone else lose their will to live after reading this thread?
Hopefully.

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 Post subject: Re: Momentum
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:54 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
So did anyone else lose their will to live after reading this thread?
Hopefully.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Momentum
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:10 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
Didn't the Bears defense get their mo mo back last week since they scored and won? If so, how did they get it back before that game since they lost so much in the weeks before? And why didn't the Bears get the big mo when they beat the Vikings a few weeks back? And why did the Vikings get momentum after losing to the Bears?
It's not a universal thing. The Bears did not get it back last week. They still are in a pretty bad free fall. They happened to win. That's the problem with people talking about momentum. They act like it must exist always. It's just like luck. Luck can exist, but luck doesn't always exist. When the Patriots win by 50 points, they weren't lucky. When the Seahawks win on a terrible call at the end of the game, they were lucky. The same is true of momentum. It doesn't always exist, but it can and does exist.
Bucky Chris wrote:
I do feel certain topics are a waste of time and I like discussing why I think they are a waste of time... specifically if other people are wasting their own time when it's useless. If that doesn't make sense to you, I can't help you.
The problem is the topic, which you find to be a waste of time to discuss, is something you are discussing. It doesn't make sense to me. There are a lot of topics I don't feel are worth discussing and I don't discuss them.


I love that you can't understand this simple concept. Makes me think I've overestimated you.



Let's do this. Define momentum for me. How do we recognize it? What impact does it have? What is the benefit to you being able to identify it?


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 Post subject: Re: Momentum
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:11 pm 
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Bucky Chris wrote:
Let's do this. Define momentum for me. How do we recognize it? What impact does it have? What is the benefit to you being able to identify it?
I did earlier. Maybe your lack of interest in this thread caused you not to read it the first time.

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 Post subject: Re: Momentum
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:14 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
Let's do this. Define momentum for me. How do we recognize it? What impact does it have? What is the benefit to you being able to identify it?
I did earlier. Maybe your lack of interest in this thread caused you not to read it the first time.


Ok, so in the 6 game stretch of Rex's momentum... when was it officially momentum? And why did it stop? And how did you know it when you saw it? Did you know it was momentum in game 2? What happened in game 7? Why didn't he get it back after he lost it?


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 Post subject: Re: Momentum
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:29 pm 
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Bucky Chris wrote:
Ok, so in the 6 game stretch of Rex's momentum... when was it officially momentum?
I don't know if there is a specific minute that it officially became momentum, but it was pretty clear that he was playing out of his mind and would eventually come back to Earth during it, unless you were Nas.
Bucky Chris wrote:
And why did it stop? And how did you know it when you saw it?
It stopped because whatever Rex had figured out was countered by defenses and they figured out how to stop him. Remember the rock example? The defenses figured out how to stop the force behind his play.
Bucky Chris wrote:
Why didn't he get it back after he lost it?
I don't understand the question. If I win the lottery, it's luck. If I don't win the lottery again, it was still luck when I won it the first time.

The fact that he played so well, and never got it back, is a big reason why it was momentum and not just his skill.

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 Post subject: Re: Momentum
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:32 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
Ok, so in the 6 game stretch of Rex's momentum... when was it officially momentum?
I don't know if there is a specific minute that it officially became momentum, but it was pretty clear that he was playing out of his mind and would eventually come back to Earth during it, unless you were Nas.
Bucky Chris wrote:
And why did it stop? And how did you know it when you saw it?
It stopped because whatever Rex had figured out was countered by defenses and they figured out how to stop him. Remember the rock example? The defenses figured out how to stop the force behind his play.
Bucky Chris wrote:
Why didn't he get it back after he lost it?
I don't understand the question. If I win the lottery, it's luck. If I don't win the lottery again, it was still luck when I won it the first time.

The fact that he played so well, and never got it back, is a big reason why it was momentum and not just his skill.


What's the difference between luck and momentum?


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 Post subject: Re: Momentum
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
Ok, so in the 6 game stretch of Rex's momentum... when was it officially momentum?
I don't know if there is a specific minute that it officially became momentum, but it was pretty clear that he was playing out of his mind and would eventually come back to Earth during it, unless you were Nas.
Bucky Chris wrote:
And why did it stop? And how did you know it when you saw it?
It stopped because whatever Rex had figured out was countered by defenses and they figured out how to stop him. Remember the rock example? The defenses figured out how to stop the force behind his play.
Bucky Chris wrote:
Why didn't he get it back after he lost it?
I don't understand the question. If I win the lottery, it's luck. If I don't win the lottery again, it was still luck when I won it the first time.

The fact that he played so well, and never got it back, is a big reason why it was momentum and not just his skill.


How is "rex figuring out" something defined as momentum and not scheming/coaching/execution/randomness?


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 Post subject: Re: Momentum
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:37 pm 
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Bucky Chris wrote:
What's the difference between luck and momentum?
At least in my opinion, momentum is because of something the person is doing, whereas luck is simply something that happened that worked out well with no real skill involved in it.

Bucky Chris wrote:
How is "rex figuring out" something defined as momentum and not scheming/coaching/execution/randomness?
Those things aren't mutually exclusive.

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 Post subject: Re: Momentum
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:44 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
What's the difference between luck and momentum?
At least in my opinion, momentum is because of something the person is doing, whereas luck is simply something that happened that worked out well with no real skill involved in it.

Bucky Chris wrote:
How is "rex figuring out" something defined as momentum and not scheming/coaching/execution/randomness?
Those things aren't mutually exclusive.


So what was Rex doing that gave him momentum?


I agree with your second point to an extent. If it exists though, I don't believe it matters more than any of those things I listed (and there may be a lot more). I don't see how you can separate momentum out from that list and attritbute anything to it. I can talk about how their schemes helped him complete passes. I can talk about how coaching helped him throw touchdowns. I can talk about why his execution was the difference between completions and incompletions. I know randomness exists. How does momentum fit in? How do you know it's there?


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 Post subject: Re: Momentum
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:52 pm 
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Bucky Chris wrote:
So what was Rex doing that gave him momentum?
How many times do I have to explain this?
Bucky Chris wrote:
I agree with your second point to an extent. If it exists though, I don't believe it matters more than any of those things I listed (and there may be a lot more). I don't see how you can separate momentum out from that list and attritbute anything to it.
It's because they aren't mutually exclusive.
Bucky Chris wrote:
I can talk about how their schemes helped him complete passes. I can talk about how coaching helped him throw touchdowns. I can talk about why his execution was the difference between completions and incompletions. I know randomness exists. How does momentum fit in? How do you know it's there?
I explained this earlier. Everything you describe can be a reason why momentum exists or is happening. Eventually though, others figure out how to stop it.

Please note I'm not saying that the only reason that anyone wins or loses is because they have momentum, but it seems pretty obvious to me that momentum causes players and teams to outperform their ability until it is figured out or just goes away.

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 Post subject: Re: Momentum
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:55 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
So what was Rex doing that gave him momentum?
How many times do I have to explain this?
Bucky Chris wrote:
I agree with your second point to an extent. If it exists though, I don't believe it matters more than any of those things I listed (and there may be a lot more). I don't see how you can separate momentum out from that list and attritbute anything to it.
It's because they aren't mutually exclusive.
Bucky Chris wrote:
I can talk about how their schemes helped him complete passes. I can talk about how coaching helped him throw touchdowns. I can talk about why his execution was the difference between completions and incompletions. I know randomness exists. How does momentum fit in? How do you know it's there?
I explained this earlier. Everything you describe can be a reason why momentum exists or is happening. Eventually though, others figure out how to stop it.

Please note I'm not saying that the only reason that anyone wins or loses is because they have momentum, but it seems pretty obvious to me that momentum causes players and teams to outperform their ability until it is figured out or just goes away.


I guess I'm not seeing anything from you that explains why something is momentum, and not talent/teammates/coaching/schemes/execution/randomness/luck. What's the difference between that stuff and momentum?


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 Post subject: Re: Momentum
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:58 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
So did anyone else lose their will to live after reading this thread?
+1.

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 Post subject: Re: Momentum
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:04 pm 
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This thread has no momentum.

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 Post subject: Re: Momentum
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:27 pm 
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Nothing the Bears have done this year suggests momentum had any meaningful impact.

They've beaten every team with a negative point-differential.

They've lost to every team with a positive point-differential, except for the first Vikings game.


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