They can't even handle Purdue. They are doomed this Big Ten season.

Can't go 1-15 on the road against anybody.

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You know me like that.

Giving up 16 offensive rebounds isn't going to get it done.

Illinois' big men should be embarrassed. What a bunch of pussies.

Lack of rebounding and over reliance on the 3 pt shot is not going to cut it in the Big 10, especially on the road.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Looks that way.

_________________
You know me like that.

We won this one for Bruce Weber!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It's a shame Bruce Weber never won one for Bruce Weber.

_________________
You know me like that.

Real interesting matchup for the Illini tonight at home vs. Minnesota. Illinois played really well over the
weekend blowing out Ohio State and continue to be undefeated at home. They still need to pick up their
shooting percentage but their uptempo offense continues to pay nice dividends and makes them tough to
defend. Egwu had a nice breakout game against OSU so it will be intereeting to see if he can continue to
improve. This will be Minnesota's first road game in over a month, I find that pretty wild at this stage of the
season and may make things a bit tougher for the Gophers. Game will be broadcast tonight at 8 on BTN.

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Flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami

Minnesota is the #1 offensive rebounding team in the country. If Illinois doesn't rebound, they will not win this game.

Sorry, just catching up in this thread, but why do you believe this? What is different between this and the NFL's age limit, which was unsuccessfully challenged by Maurice Clarett?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Yeah, that is definitely the Achilles heel for this team, especially when they are shooting as poorly as they have
been in general.

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Flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami

I don't know the particulars of the Clarett case. But I do know that an eighteen year in the U.S. has the legal right to contract and no organization can arbitrarily take away such a right. I think the obvious answer as to why the "rule" isn't challenged is that, from a practical standpoint, by the time the case is settled, the year would be completed anyway.

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Don't take it personally.

I agree on the impracticality of challenging such a rule, I just am not sure I agree on the legality. An 18 year old has a right to work, but he doesn't have a right to work wherever he wants. Do you think the age minimum of 35 for President would be overturned if challenged by an 18 year old also?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

That's a Constitutional issue and far from arbitrary. I'm sure you see the difference.

I just don't see how an eighteen year old with all the skills, ability, and training necessary to ply his trade could be prevented from doing so by what is practically, if not specifically, a monopoly and have that stand up under legal scrutiny.

_________________
Don't take it personally.

Well a select few of them have the skills, ability, and mental maturity to succeed in the league as an 18 year old. Many others dont. The NBA was realizing that either they were collectively failing to accurately scout these kids, or that they simply werent able to accurately scout them enough to keep from letting enough unqualified kids into the league via the draft to dilute the talent pool even further and hurt the product in the process. So they came up with a rule to help filter out the unwanted prospects and get more scouting info on the ones that do qualify for the draft. I dont see any legality issue in a business making a decision to improve it's product. The Presidential example probably isn't as analogous as the Clarett example though, but I think Clarett unsuccessfully challenging the NFL would set a precedent for any judge overseeing a similar NBA suit.

As for the monopoly issue, nobody is forcing them to go to college. Brandon Jenning went and played abroad, made six figures for a year, and came back and was a top 10 pick who had a great rookie season.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Whether they have the skills, ability and maturity to succeed is irrelevant. All they need is the skills, ability and maturity to get signed which many obviously do.

Where the NBA might have a problem is when a guy like Rose who would clearly be drafted near the top but is forced to play elsewhere for a year and await the natural payday from the market and he happens to have a career-ending injury. I'd quickly be looking for an attorney to file an action against the NBA based on the money I would have made without their rule. I'd call GM after GM and let them get on the stand. We'd find out of they would lie to protect the league or admit that they'd make the pick and pay the slotted amount.

I think that's the only way it would happen unless an owner like Cuban decided he was getting the shaft on a LeBron-like talent with the first pick in the guy's forbidden year. Most owners wouldn't fight that battle and most players aren't going to sue their future employers.

_________________
Don't take it personally.

I like their chances at home tonight. I think they might struggle on the road in conference play. I'll go with -

vs. Minnesota W
at Wisconsin L
vs. Northwestern W
at Nebraska W
vs. Michigan L
at Michigan State L
vs. Wisconsin W
vs. Indiana L
at Minnesota L
vs. Purdue W
at Northwestern W
vs. Penn State W
at Michigan L
vs. Nebraska W
at Iowa W
at Ohio State L

That would put them 10-8 and 23-9 and in the Tourney.

_________________
You know me like that.

Yeah but once again, I think the Clarett decision would set the precedent to rule in the league's favor. Obviously I dont know the law like someone like IB or stoneroses, but I cant think of anything I've heard about that would prohibit the NBA from setting an age-limit. I'm not even necessarily in favor of the one and done rule, I just believe the NBA has a right to have that rule. I would like to see a scenario like the one you describe, but I dont think it would have the intended result you would be looking for.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I like the way you have them lined up Doc. The Badgers aren't very good this year and even though they play well
at the Kohl Center I would be inclined to give the Illini the win there and a loss against one subpar team along the way.
It would really be a resume booster to beat Michigan at home but that would be a tough one to pull off.

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Flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami

They beat Butler and Gonzaga, so their resume will be strong if they can finish .500 or better in conference.

Oh, I agree. A big win vs. Ohio State won't hurt either. I just hope they can beat most of the teams they should
on paper. That Purdue loss isn't a horrible one but if you drop one to Nebraska or Penn St. that could hurt pretty bad
when it comes to seeding time assuming they make the tournament. After last year I don't want to make any
assumptions this early in the Big Ten schedule.

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Flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami

If they are .500 or better in the Big Ten, they are definitely in. If they are .500 but lose to teams they should beat, it will only mean they are were able to beat the top teams in the league at the same time.

T-Bone and BC, I would like to politely ask you guys to stop derailing this thread. JORR and I are trying to keep this discussion on track. Thanks guys.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Hey man, no one talks serious issues in the Illini thread!

_________________
Flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami

Did you guys hear that Justin Bieber and Selena Gomez broke up?


And Heath Ledger died.

I think that is a pretty fair assessment of what will happen this year.

No one better take you guys lightly or they will be getting a L.

I hate the fact that Indiana and Illinois only play once this year.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Well at least rebounding did not kill them tonight.

3-23 from behind the arc didn't help tho.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

They are good at getting to the basket. It would be nice to see them do it more.

Huge fan of Groce