No. I think people can demonstrate by their performance in school, on academic tests (ACT & SAT for example) whether they are most deserving of a scholarship or grant. Just as someone can demonstrate through scgool grades, work experience and aptitude testing, whether they are most qualified for a job. Of course background (criminal history, etc) can also weigh into both.

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Go Cubs!!!!

I bring it up simply to illustrate that everyone uses what they have. If you're a real good-looking guy, you use that to get laid. I have to use my charm. I don't think that's fair, but it is what it is. Why does anyone think it's fair that some guys go to Phillips Andover or St. Ignatius and others go to Vocational or Hirsch?

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Freedom is our Strength.

Are you saying that a kid at Simeon and a kid at New Trier have the same opportunities?

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Freedom is our Strength.

You are the fool if you think that things aren't any better today than they were 50 years ago.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

A person from a shit neighborhood and bad schools who scores a 28 on the ACT is much more impressive than someone from Kenilworth that scores a 33.

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No- whether you term it affirmative action or quotas, jobs were handed out to people that scored lower because they were female or from a minority background. Schools also took students with lower grades/test scores than white males had, to create a more "diverse" student body. It's often referred to as reverse discrimination and because of litigation it has brought about, it has been eliminated to a large degree in hiring practices, but not as much in the academic world.

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Go Cubs!!!!

Yeah it just didn't fit I thought here because that is not purely racial. A lot of white people like myself for instance may not go to Yale because of John Deer's grandkid etc. Religious and financial advantages affect all over. There are many affluent people especially celebrities that use that angle into the Ivies.

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Elections have consequences.

Who old are you?....just answer the question please

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Sure, but you probably won't find anyone outraged about that posting on a message board. I'm not directly quoting Sotomayor, but she said something to the effect that it your dad was really rich and you went to the best possible schools and then got into Princeton, why is that less of an advantage than her working her ass off and catching a break because she's Puerto Rican. Like you said, they're not taking illiterates.

And I'm not a guy who believes "diversity" should be the value that trumps all else. But there certainly is something to be said for a university or a workplace or whatever group you want to name that has people from different backgrounds, cultures, social strata, etc.

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Freedom is our Strength.

I am 37.

And I stand by my statement. Things are better than they were during MLK's day. Things are FAR from perfect, but progress has made. And if you fail to see that, then you are the fool.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Similar opportunities, but it's likely they would have vastly differring circumstances in which to operate.

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Go Cubs!!!!

During MLKs day there was a middle class...where is that today. How many blacks are in your neighborhood????

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Yeah I see she didn't say that. Hell if I could use and angle I would have no doubt. Good thing I didn't need one with the ladies like you did.

The academic one is interesting. Too exhausted now to look them up but the recent Supreme Court stuff with Michigan I think it was changed it a bit. I believe they were told they cannot simply take lesser qualified people base on race but can decide to accept people for a more diverse campus experience. I am not sure what that means really. I do know that where I work the campus is pretty diverse I see all sorts of people everywhere and seemingly people get along well. Maybe in another generation that experience will pay off in real world diversity without counting?

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Elections have consequences.

By The Rev. MARTIN LUTHER KING Jr.
Aug. 28, 1963

I am happy to join with you today in what will go down in history as the greatest demonstration for freedom in the history of our nation.

Five score years ago, a great American, in whose symbolic shadow we stand signed the Emancipation Proclamation. This momentous decree came as a great beacon light of hope to millions of Negro slaves who had been seared in the flames of withering injustice. It came as a joyous daybreak to end the long night of captivity.

But one hundred years later, we must face the tragic fact that the Negro is still not free. One hundred years later, the life of the Negro is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination. One hundred years later, the Negro lives on a lonely island of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. One hundred years later, the Negro is still languishing in the corners of American society and finds himself an exile in his own land. So we have come here today to dramatize an appalling condition.

In a sense we have come to our nation's capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men would be guaranteed the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

It is obvious today that America has defaulted on this promissory note insofar as her citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, America has given the Negro people a bad check which has come back marked "insufficient funds." But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this nation. So we have come to cash this check -- a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice. We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind America of the fierce urgency of now. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. Now is the time to rise from the dark and desolate valley of segregation to the sunlit path of racial justice. Now is the time to open the doors of opportunity to all of God's children. Now is the time to lift our nation from the quicksands of racial injustice to the solid rock of brotherhood.

It would be fatal for the nation to overlook the urgency of the moment and to underestimate the determination of the Negro. This sweltering summer of the Negro's legitimate discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality. Nineteen sixty-three is not an end, but a beginning. Those who hope that the Negro needed to blow off steam and will now be content will have a rude awakening if the nation returns to business as usual. There will be neither rest nor tranquility in America until the Negro is granted his citizenship rights. The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of our nation until the bright day of justice emerges.

But there is something that I must say to my people who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice. In the process of gaining our rightful place we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred.

We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force. The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community must not lead us to distrust of all white people, for many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny and their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom. We cannot walk alone.

And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall march ahead. We cannot turn back. There are those who are asking the devotees of civil rights, "When will you be satisfied?" We can never be satisfied as long as our bodies, heavy with the fatigue of travel, cannot gain lodging in the motels of the highways and the hotels of the cities. We cannot be satisfied as long as the Negro's basic mobility is from a smaller ghetto to a larger one. We can never be satisfied as long as a Negro in Mississippi cannot vote and a Negro in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until justice rolls down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream.

I am not unmindful that some of you have come here out of great trials and tribulations. Some of you have come fresh from narrow cells. Some of you have come from areas where your quest for freedom left you battered by the storms of persecution and staggered by the winds of police brutality. You have been the veterans of creative suffering. Continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive.

Go back to Mississippi, go back to Alabama, go back to Georgia, go back to Louisiana, go back to the slums and ghettos of our northern cities, knowing that somehow this situation can and will be changed. Let us not wallow in the valley of despair.

I say to you today, my friends, that in spite of the difficulties and frustrations of the moment, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.
Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial: 1 Year Later Watch Video
Your 3 Words: Rev Martin Luther King Jr. Edition Watch Video
MLK Jr. Memorial Dedicated Watch Video

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a desert state, sweltering with the heat of injustice and oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.

I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

I have a dream today.

I have a dream that one day the state of Alabama, whose governor's lips are presently dripping with the words of interposition and nullification, will be transformed into a situation where little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls and walk together as sisters and brothers.

I have a dream today.

I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together.

This is our hope. This is the faith with which I return to the South. With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day.

This will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with a new meaning, "My country, 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my fathers died, land of the pilgrim's pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring."

And if America is to be a great nation this must become true. So let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire. Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York. Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania!

Let freedom ring from the snowcapped Rockies of Colorado!

Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of California!

But not only that; let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia!

Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee!

Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill of Mississippi. From every mountainside, let freedom ring.

And when this happens, when we allow freedom to ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"

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To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Dr King was a great man and American. Did he have flaw? Hell yes,every person does. He wanted everyone to be equal,are we there yet? No,but we are working on it. Will we ever reach the ideal like they have on Star Trek? Who knows. Affirmative action was needed,that can not be denied. The problem is how long will it need to be used. I think it has outlived its usefulness. I mean they now want to transfer it to illegal immigrants,ie Dream Act. It is now hurting race relations by making those groups who do not benefit from it resent those that do.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

Hi Walt, I am 45 btw. Why do you think there is no longer a middle class? Just wondering as I see a picture of vanishing middle class for blacks, whites, hispanics etc. Certainly, there are differences among those groups and so on. I can think of a thousand reasons for no middle class. That my friend is a very difficult question.

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Elections have consequences.

Not many where I live now. But I spent the first 24 years of my life just mins outside of Gary, IN, and went to high school and college in places that were pretty diverse. So it is not like I have been sheltered during my life.

Like I said, I get things are not perfect, but progress has been clearly made. Black people have way more opportunities in life than they did during MLK's day. I am not sure how anyone could deny that. The dream may not be fully realized, but it is farther along than it was in the day it was delivered.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Sure, but you probably won't find anyone outraged about that posting on a message board. I'm not directly quoting Sotomayor, but she said something to the effect that it your dad was really rich and you went to the best possible schools and then got into Princeton, why is that more of an advantage than her working her ass off and catching a break because she's Puerto Rican. Like you said, they're not taking illiterates.
[quote]

So don't let a rich kid/legacy into a school that doesn't have the needed grades/scores either. 2 wrongs don't make a right. The kid that had a 3.6 GPA that got passed over by one with a 3.2 that happened to be Puerto Rican....what about that kid? It should only be based on qualifications.....Okay, the rich kid is still getting in, if the donation is big enough. But again, what about the more qualified student that gets passed over because someone less deserving got his/her spot due to their ethnic background? Or do you just say, Well they do that thing that is wrong, so doing this wrong thing is to be excused?

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Go Cubs!!!!

Dr. King's dream has been realized today.

We are no longer separated by the color of our skin for the most part.

Now it's all about rich and poor.

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Why do you think Barack Obama was elected? You don't think his skin color was the reason he was elected?

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To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Amen brother. Now we need to revolt and take the country back from the Illuminati

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

And yet another can of worms

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Elections have consequences.

Not totally.

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He wasn't Bush was why he was elected. Any Democrat would of won in 08 that got the nomination.

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It certainly wasn't the reason I voted for him, but I think it might have been a deciding factor in him winning.

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Go Cubs!!!!

He basically used the same type of rhetoric as Dr. King as though America was going to be holding hands singing "Free At Last" with all the hope and change he promised to bring.

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To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Well Kerry couldn't beat Bush. I think there are a lot of factors why Obama won in 08.

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Elections have consequences.

Obama strategically talked of "hope and change" and pulled it off, plus McCain then Romney were poor candidates. But yes, his election does validate MLK's vision for America.

And Kerry was another lousy candidate.

The other night I had the most absurd nightmare. I was poor and no one liked me. I lost my job, I lost my house, Penelope hated me and it was all because of this terrible, awful Negro.