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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:45 pm 
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Facing the Knicks in the 1st round would be the best thing that could happen to the Bulls. They would get a chance to gel and I think they would win the series easily and a match up with Indiana in the 2nd round would prepare them for the Heat in the ECF.


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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:48 pm 
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Phil McCracken wrote:
Makaveli wrote:
Nate is a better version of JL3. Butler is a better version of Brewer (he'll be the reason Deng is gone in a couple years). Marco Polo is a more versatile version of Korver. When healthy Hinrich gives you more than Watson. Boozer has tried to earn his money this year. Deng is still Deng. Noah hasn't gotten better. Rose (first reported by me) has a far better outside shot than he had before. Taj stills provides a boost when he is healthy. Thibs is a better coach now than he was last season or the year before. The Bulls will surprise a lot of people.

Marco may be more versatile but he can't shoot the lights out of the gym like Korver though. Without Taj/Henrich/Rose this team is just in a rough patch. They will be fine for the playoffs. Noah is a stud. Deng is still good and if you get anything back from Derrick and Henrich the guard rotation starts to make alot more sense. And thank god Rip Hamilton is finally dead.


Korver is a better shooter when his shot is on but we've seen him go cold in the playoffs the past 2 seasons. When he did he was worthless. Marco at least has the ability to put the ball on the floor and he's won games for the Bulls this year. If you can guarantee me that Korver's shot would be on for the entire playoffs I would rather have him.


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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:48 pm 
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The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
Again, they can't score on command. They have to do so much to get a shot for someone, it's insane. Rose returning only somewhat alleviates this problem, until other teams start focusing on him. We already saw this movie two years ago.


Yeah ^^^^^this^^^^^. If I'm not mistaken haven't the Bulls had multiple situations this season with ~2-5 seconds left needing a bucket to tie/win and they get the ball in and don't even manage to get a shot off? Or, even worse, the ball ends up in third/fourth option LOLDENG's hands and you can visibly see that instant reaction of "OH SHIT" before it's a desperation dribble-dribble-desperationchuck?

I mean, seriously... Marco Freaking Belinelli is the team's "closer" at this point. That says a whole lot right there. Say what you will about him (and you're probably right) but at least Nate Robinson has the stones to miss that shot... otherwise I don't think anyone on the Bulls, especially LOLDENG, even wants that game-deciding shot at this juncture.

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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:50 pm 
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beni hanna wrote:
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I really want to be wrong about this shitfest of a grindy team, but I don't think I am.

Huh. Always got the impression you were into grinding.

:eye:

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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:54 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:57 pm 
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Bob's Burgers is a better show. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:59 pm 
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That's just The Crew talking.


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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:00 pm 
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Makaveli wrote:
Phil McCracken wrote:
Makaveli wrote:
Nate is a better version of JL3. Butler is a better version of Brewer (he'll be the reason Deng is gone in a couple years). Marco Polo is a more versatile version of Korver. When healthy Hinrich gives you more than Watson. Boozer has tried to earn his money this year. Deng is still Deng. Noah hasn't gotten better. Rose (first reported by me) has a far better outside shot than he had before. Taj stills provides a boost when he is healthy. Thibs is a better coach now than he was last season or the year before. The Bulls will surprise a lot of people.

Marco may be more versatile but he can't shoot the lights out of the gym like Korver though. Without Taj/Henrich/Rose this team is just in a rough patch. They will be fine for the playoffs. Noah is a stud. Deng is still good and if you get anything back from Derrick and Henrich the guard rotation starts to make alot more sense. And thank god Rip Hamilton is finally dead.


Korver is a better shooter when his shot is on but we've seen him go cold in the playoffs the past 2 seasons. When he did he was worthless. Marco at least has the ability to put the ball on the floor and he's won games for the Bulls this year. If you can guarantee me that Korver's shot would be on for the entire playoffs I would rather have him.

Yeah but half the time Marco puts the ball on the floor he ends up dribbling it off his legs anyways. I don't hate Marco but he is frustrating and playing way too many minutes right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:03 pm 
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The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
Bob's Burgers is a better show. :D

Yuuuup

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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:33 pm 
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I personally would be happy if the Bulls happened to move up a couple spots in the draft by missing, not intentionally of course, the playoffs. Now I am sympathetic to all these arguments in this thread that say the Bulls can make some noise in the second or third rounds, with a ceiling of bowing out in the conference finals by serving as an annoying speed bump of sorts for the Heat. But is this what has become of Bulls nation? Celebrating...mediocrity? A good team that can reach the conference finals? Really? Who cares?

I think the Bulls would do well to adopt the Cubs' approach: jettison dead weight (Boozer, Deng, Hamilton) via trades for cheaper, younger talent, or more cap space/draft picks, in order to put yourselves in position to upgrade the roster substantially in the near future. We all know what this team can do, and that's go as far as the conference finals, which is not good enough. So let's drop surrounding Rose with mid-level talent for the sake of doing so, and take up the truly bold approach of starting from scratch while Rose is still young.

Like we've all heard, you will tread water for some time if you start over, but given a choice to be a consistent, capped out 55-win team with an apex of a conference finals loss, versus a 35-win team with cap space and a stash of somewhat attractive draft picks, I think you have to take the latter.

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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:33 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
I personally would be happy if the Bulls happened to move up a couple spots in the draft by missing, not intentionally of course, the playoffs. Now I am sympathetic to all these arguments in this thread that say the Bulls can make some noise in the second or third rounds, with a ceiling of bowing out in the conference finals by serving as an annoying speed bump of sorts for the Heat. But is this what has become of Bulls nation? Celebrating...mediocrity? A good team that can reach the conference finals? Really? Who cares?

I think the Bulls would do well to adopt the Cubs' approach: jettison dead weight (Boozer, Deng, Hamilton) via trades for cheaper, younger talent, or more cap space/draft picks, in order to put yourselves in position to upgrade the roster substantially in the near future. We all know what this team can do, and that's go as far as the conference finals, which is not good enough. So let's drop surrounding Rose with mid-level talent for the sake of doing so, and take up the truly bold approach of starting from scratch while Rose is still young.

Like we've all heard, you will tread water for some time if you start over, but given a choice to be a consistent, capped out 55-win team with an apex of a conference finals loss, versus a 35-win team with cap space and a stash of somewhat attractive draft picks, I think you have to take the latter.

Verbose.

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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:39 pm 
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The Bulls won't even miss the playoffs this year if they lose the rest of their games.

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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:45 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
I personally would be happy if the Bulls happened to move up a couple spots in the draft by missing, not intentionally of course, the playoffs. Now I am sympathetic to all these arguments in this thread that say the Bulls can make some noise in the second or third rounds, with a ceiling of bowing out in the conference finals by serving as an annoying speed bump of sorts for the Heat. But is this what has become of Bulls nation? Celebrating...mediocrity? A good team that can reach the conference finals? Really? Who cares?

I think the Bulls would do well to adopt the Cubs' approach: jettison dead weight (Boozer, Deng, Hamilton) via trades for cheaper, younger talent, or more cap space/draft picks, in order to put yourselves in position to upgrade the roster substantially in the near future. We all know what this team can do, and that's go as far as the conference finals, which is not good enough. So let's drop surrounding Rose with mid-level talent for the sake of doing so, and take up the truly bold approach of starting from scratch while Rose is still young.

Like we've all heard, you will tread water for some time if you start over, but given a choice to be a consistent, capped out 55-win team with an apex of a conference finals loss, versus a 35-win team with cap space and a stash of somewhat attractive draft picks, I think you have to take the latter.

Solid post. Please don't be a stranger.

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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:55 pm 
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The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I personally would be happy if the Bulls happened to move up a couple spots in the draft by missing, not intentionally of course, the playoffs. Now I am sympathetic to all these arguments in this thread that say the Bulls can make some noise in the second or third rounds, with a ceiling of bowing out in the conference finals by serving as an annoying speed bump of sorts for the Heat. But is this what has become of Bulls nation? Celebrating...mediocrity? A good team that can reach the conference finals? Really? Who cares?

I think the Bulls would do well to adopt the Cubs' approach: jettison dead weight (Boozer, Deng, Hamilton) via trades for cheaper, younger talent, or more cap space/draft picks, in order to put yourselves in position to upgrade the roster substantially in the near future. We all know what this team can do, and that's go as far as the conference finals, which is not good enough. So let's drop surrounding Rose with mid-level talent for the sake of doing so, and take up the truly bold approach of starting from scratch while Rose is still young.

Like we've all heard, you will tread water for some time if you start over, but given a choice to be a consistent, capped out 55-win team with an apex of a conference finals loss, versus a 35-win team with cap space and a stash of somewhat attractive draft picks, I think you have to take the latter.

Solid post. Please don't be a stranger.


I like this new guy, his post was nice, informative and refreshing. He is also correct in his assertions.


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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:59 pm 
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SomeGuy wrote:
I like this new guy, his post was nice, informative and refreshing. He is also correct in his assertions.

Shut the fuck up.

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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:00 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
I like this new guy, his post was nice, informative and refreshing. He is also correct in his assertions.

Shut the fuck up.


Whoa... :shock:

Everything OK?


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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:01 pm 
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SomeGuy wrote:
Darkside wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
I like this new guy, his post was nice, informative and refreshing. He is also correct in his assertions.

Shut the fuck up.


Whoa... :shock:

Everything OK?

Oh, yeah. Just fine.

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Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.


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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:03 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
Darkside wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
I like this new guy, his post was nice, informative and refreshing. He is also correct in his assertions.

Shut the fuck up.


Whoa... :shock:

Everything OK?

Oh, yeah. Just fine.


Something I said?

Take it to Facebook and Email someone who cares.


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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:05 pm 
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SomeGuy wrote:
Something I said?

Take it to Facebook and Email someone who cares.

No, not at all.
I'm working on new ways to express myself.
I suppose this was less successful than punching a Randy Macho Man Savage Pillow.

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Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.


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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:07 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
Something I said?

Take it to Facebook and Email someone who cares.

No, not at all.
I'm working on new ways to express myself.
I suppose this was less successful than punching a Randy Macho Man Savage Pillow.


Oh. Well, I wish you the best on your journey of self-discovery.

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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:08 pm 
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SomeGuy wrote:

Oh. Well, I wish you the best on your journey of self-discovery.

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:D hey, thanks man!

You're all right.

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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:08 pm 
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SomeGuy wrote:

Oh. Well, I wish you the best on your journey of self-discovery.

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:D hey, thanks man!

You're all right.

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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:11 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
I like this new guy, his post was nice, informative and refreshing. He is also correct in his assertions.

Shut the fuck up.

Secanted.

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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:11 pm 
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A gif so good it forces you to post about it twice.


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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:13 pm 
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SomeGuy wrote:
A gif so good it forces you to post about it twice.

Shut the fuck...
hey, you wanna grab some mint herb tea sometime?

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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:16 pm 
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Keeping Score wrote:
I wouldn't exactly call Deng "dead weight".

I wouldn't call anyone from the Sudan "dead weight".

*Except the dead ones of course

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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:00 pm 
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Taking a team that is probably a player away and trying to rebuild doesn't seem like the smartest idea. Especially considering the Bulls can and probably will remove over $30M from their books in 2 years. It's unlikely the Bobcats will be good in 3 years so the Bulls will have a likely top 3 pick to work with. They're in great shape. Contrary to popular opinion Miami is beatable and the Bulls in the current form could beat them if they are somewhat healthy.


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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:35 pm 
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Thanks for the warm welcome. Long time reader first time contributor.

Makaveli wrote:
Taking a team that is probably a player away and trying to rebuild doesn't seem like the smartest idea. Especially considering the Bulls can and probably will remove over $30M from their books in 2 years. It's unlikely the Bobcats will be good in 3 years so the Bulls will have a likely top 3 pick to work with. They're in great shape. Contrary to popular opinion Miami is beatable and the Bulls in the current form could beat them if they are somewhat healthy.


I would have agreed with this two years ago, but then we saw how limited this team is when matched up against transcendent talent. And equally problematic, we saw how even Derrick Rose is limited when matched up against LeBron in the fourth. I don't think the Bulls are just a player away, they are a superstar away, and those guys are easy to find but nearly impossible to acquire. Also, the Bulls will not save a ton of money after Hamilton's contract expires; they still have multiple years left of Boozer, Noah, and Deng, plus Rose's new contract salary, all of whom are in the 12 million to 16 million range if I am not mistaken. This core, while nice, has already reached its peak in 2011. If you want to clear real money, then out of Deng, Noah, and Boozer, you probably need to get rid of two. Except for maybe Noah, no player out of these three will fetch you an all pro caliber player in a trade. So I am not sure greatness is as close as you make it seem, although I wish it were so.

sinicalypse wrote:
The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
The Bulls will lose in the first round to whomever.

Yeah, all joking aside I have to cosign this thought. The Bulls don't have enough offense to go out and WIN games when their defense doesn't out-defense a team to have a lesser offensive output than themselves. I mean, it's really telling that at this point in the season you'd pretty much WANT Marco Belinelli to have an iso when you're going for a game-winning/tying/deciding shot. That might work for a few games during the regular season, but when you get to the playoffs and your team is the exclusive focus of all of your opponent's study/gameplanning, they're going to look for that Belinelli iso and then it's..... give the ball to LOLDENG and pray?

There's definitely going to be a lot of prayer involved. Since there's no way in hell the dumbass Bulls could miss the playoffs and get a top-5 pick rigged for them in the lottery, I reckon it doesn't make that much of a difference regarding how deep their playoff run is. That said, I think this team is good enough to keep anyone-but-Miami close enough down the stretch to have a fighting chance in just about every game, but they don't have anyone on the team good enough offensively to step up and win them a game/series/championship.


I think sinicalypse is exactly right. This is also why I referred to Luol Deng as "dead weight." He's a fantastic player: 18 points per game, 7-8 rebounds, solid defense, not a troublemaker. The problem with Deng is you cannot rely on him as your secondary scoring option because he's too easily neutralized. He cannot create off the dribble and therefore puts no pressure on defenses. Without a second and/or third creator next to Rose, the Bulls simply cannot score. Ideally, the Bulls would have brought in a legitimate second star in 2010, but we all know how disappointing that free agency period was. Deng is a great third option, but he's in over his head as Rose's right hand man.

By the way, I think the Bulls should have used Noah as a trade bait when they had Asik. Noah is a better passer than Asik, but outside of that, I think they're very similar. Asik could have stepped right in to take over for Noah. Noah is nice, but not untouchable. I hope GarPax are not overvaluing players like they did back in the mid-2000s, when the "core" consisted of Hinrich, Chandler, Gordon, and Deng.

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 Post subject: Re: Playoff Chances
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:26 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Thanks for the warm welcome. Long time reader first time contributor.

Makaveli wrote:
Taking a team that is probably a player away and trying to rebuild doesn't seem like the smartest idea. Especially considering the Bulls can and probably will remove over $30M from their books in 2 years. It's unlikely the Bobcats will be good in 3 years so the Bulls will have a likely top 3 pick to work with. They're in great shape. Contrary to popular opinion Miami is beatable and the Bulls in the current form could beat them if they are somewhat healthy.


I would have agreed with this two years ago, but then we saw how limited this team is when matched up against transcendent talent. And equally problematic, we saw how even Derrick Rose is limited when matched up against LeBron in the fourth. I don't think the Bulls are just a player away, they are a superstar away, and those guys are easy to find but nearly impossible to acquire. Also, the Bulls will not save a ton of money after Hamilton's contract expires; they still have multiple years left of Boozer, Noah, and Deng, plus Rose's new contract salary, all of whom are in the 12 million to 16 million range if I am not mistaken. This core, while nice, has already reached its peak in 2011. If you want to clear real money, then out of Deng, Noah, and Boozer, you probably need to get rid of two. Except for maybe Noah, no player out of these three will fetch you an all pro caliber player in a trade. So I am not sure greatness is as close as you make it seem, although I wish it were so.

sinicalypse wrote:
The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
The Bulls will lose in the first round to whomever.

Yeah, all joking aside I have to cosign this thought. The Bulls don't have enough offense to go out and WIN games when their defense doesn't out-defense a team to have a lesser offensive output than themselves. I mean, it's really telling that at this point in the season you'd pretty much WANT Marco Belinelli to have an iso when you're going for a game-winning/tying/deciding shot. That might work for a few games during the regular season, but when you get to the playoffs and your team is the exclusive focus of all of your opponent's study/gameplanning, they're going to look for that Belinelli iso and then it's..... give the ball to LOLDENG and pray?

There's definitely going to be a lot of prayer involved. Since there's no way in hell the dumbass Bulls could miss the playoffs and get a top-5 pick rigged for them in the lottery, I reckon it doesn't make that much of a difference regarding how deep their playoff run is. That said, I think this team is good enough to keep anyone-but-Miami close enough down the stretch to have a fighting chance in just about every game, but they don't have anyone on the team good enough offensively to step up and win them a game/series/championship.


I think sinicalypse is exactly right. This is also why I referred to Luol Deng as "dead weight." He's a fantastic player: 18 points per game, 7-8 rebounds, solid defense, not a troublemaker. The problem with Deng is you cannot rely on him as your secondary scoring option because he's too easily neutralized. He cannot create off the dribble and therefore puts no pressure on defenses. Without a second and/or third creator next to Rose, the Bulls simply cannot score. Ideally, the Bulls would have brought in a legitimate second star in 2010, but we all know how disappointing that free agency period was. Deng is a great third option, but he's in over his head as Rose's right hand man.

By the way, I think the Bulls should have used Noah as a trade bait when they had Asik. Noah is a better passer than Asik, but outside of that, I think they're very similar. Asik could have stepped right in to take over for Noah. Noah is nice, but not untouchable. I hope GarPax are not overvaluing players like they did back in the mid-2000s, when the "core" consisted of Hinrich, Chandler, Gordon, and Deng.

Oh my god your posts are so fucking long

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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rpb is wrong. Phil McCracken is useful.

Chus wrote:
RPB is right. You suck. :lol:


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