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 Post subject: Wade and James
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:54 pm 
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I know LBJ has all the talent in the world, but these guys are just such fucking douchebags!

Wade tumbling into the cameraman like he has attacked on a break away, Butler knew he didnt do anything so he walked away and as a Miracle comes down from the heavens, Wade was fine.

Wade committing a few other really cheap fouls and not getting called, to his credit, refs and the league let him do that shit.

LBJ when he tried to "Fight through" the pick by Boozer? He made no attempt to step over it and he eyed up Boozer for 5 seconds before that. Complete dick move, so much the refs took a look at it for the flagrant!

How many times can James just plow over "Kurt" and not get called for foul? James doesnt even try to put the ball up half the time, he just plows in looking for a foul.

I know James has the ability to recover, but the cherry picking he does is unreal.

And it is awfully nice for James and Wade to include the rest of the team in their plans after timeouts, when they huddle up and decide what the real play will be.

And if anyone thinks they respect Spoelstra, think again.

See LBJ walk out of the tunnel and a fan tried to reach down for a slap,as they do in every arena, just grazed James head and James stops, steps back and looked like he was gonna do something about it. I think he then thought it wouldn't be so cool to beat up the 8 year old!

James might have better PR people now, but he is still a fucking pud no matter how many games or rings he wins.

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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:35 pm 
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My favorite moment in the game was just after Nate Robinson drove to the basket and made a floater James narrowly missed blocking that put the Bulls up by 9 with 30 seconds left. After missing the block he acted like he had injured himself. Then Wade fouls Deng so obviously not trying for a steal, they should have called an intentional foul on it. They are great players on a great team, but boy it's fun watching them lose.

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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:25 am 
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bigfan wrote:
I know LBJ has all the talent in the world, but these guys are just such fucking douchebags!

Wade tumbling into the cameraman like he has attacked on a break away, Butler knew he didnt do anything so he walked away and as a Miracle comes down from the heavens, Wade was fine.

Wade committing a few other really cheap fouls and not getting called, to his credit, refs and the league let him do that shit.

LBJ when he tried to "Fight through" the pick by Boozer? He made no attempt to step over it and he eyed up Boozer for 5 seconds before that. Complete dick move, so much the refs took a look at it for the flagrant!

How many times can James just plow over "Kurt" and not get called for foul? James doesnt even try to put the ball up half the time, he just plows in looking for a foul.

I know James has the ability to recover, but the cherry picking he does is unreal.

And it is awfully nice for James and Wade to include the rest of the team in their plans after timeouts, when they huddle up and decide what the real play will be.

And if anyone thinks they respect Spoelstra, think again.

See LBJ walk out of the tunnel and a fan tried to reach down for a slap,as they do in every arena, just grazed James head and James stops, steps back and looked like he was gonna do something about it. I think he then thought it wouldn't be so cool to beat up the 8 year old!

James might have better PR people now, but he is still a fucking pud no matter how many games or rings he wins.


I find Wade infinitely more dislikable than James. James brings it every damn game, Wade doesn't. Wade is as or more arrogant when he doesn't have the James' like ability to back it up. He's still a great player but not even close to James' level.


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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:37 am 
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I agree with a lot of that. I think Wade is a dirty player and they're both Diva's. I still question the mental toughness of LeBron. He cracked tonight. He barely moved Boozer too.

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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:42 am 
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Nas wrote:
I agree with a lot of that. I think Wade is a dirty player and they're both Diva's. I still question the mental toughness of LeBron. He cracked tonight. He barely moved Boozer too.


I thought James was the only player to play well. I thought Wade was below average and I thought Bosh played soft, which he's prone to do. I don't questions James' toughness in the least, I think he's over whatever hurdles previously existed. I don't think people can really appreciate just how much better James is than Wade, it's not even close. James has to do a lot every night for this team to be dominant.


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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:52 am 
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Powerhouse233 wrote:
Nas wrote:
I agree with a lot of that. I think Wade is a dirty player and they're both Diva's. I still question the mental toughness of LeBron. He cracked tonight. He barely moved Boozer too.


I thought James was the only player to play well. I thought Wade was below average and I thought Bosh played soft, which he's prone to do. I don't questions James' toughness in the least, I think he's over whatever hurdles previously existed. I don't think people can really appreciate just how much better James is than Wade, it's not even close. James has to do a lot every night for this team to be dominant.


I'm not so sure he's over that hurdle. If you watch him during tense moments he doesn't have a reassuring look on his face. He looked frustrated the last 4 mins and he continued shooting and missing.

Wade scored 10 in the 4th but for some reason they didn't give him the ball in the closing mins.

Bosh had a pretty good game stat wise and he isn't expected to carry the team in the final moments. Of course he should be strong enough to take the ball away from Kirk.

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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:58 am 
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Nas wrote:
Powerhouse233 wrote:
Nas wrote:
I agree with a lot of that. I think Wade is a dirty player and they're both Diva's. I still question the mental toughness of LeBron. He cracked tonight. He barely moved Boozer too.


I thought James was the only player to play well. I thought Wade was below average and I thought Bosh played soft, which he's prone to do. I don't questions James' toughness in the least, I think he's over whatever hurdles previously existed. I don't think people can really appreciate just how much better James is than Wade, it's not even close. James has to do a lot every night for this team to be dominant.


I'm not so sure he's over that hurdle. If you watch him during tense moments he doesn't have a reassuring look on his face. He looked frustrated the last 4 mins and he continued shooting and missing.

Wade scored 10 in the 4th but for some reason they didn't give him the ball in the closing mins.

Bosh had a pretty good game stat wise and he isn't expected to carry the team in the final moments. Of course he should be strong enough to take the ball away from Kirk.


Some of the shots Bosh takes are just completely moronic. He's 6'11" and he's got a smaller player in Taj Gibson guarding him. Instead of taking him to the post and taking advantage of his size and his length he takes these awful fadeaways. And there's no reason he can't be averaging 10,11 rebounds per game. They have him on the perimeter a lot but there's a ton of rebounds he can go get, he just doesn't go after them, maybe it's mentality, maybe it's strength...


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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:12 am 
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Nas wrote:
I agree with a lot of that. I think Wade is a dirty player and they're both Diva's. I still question the mental toughness of LeBron. He cracked tonight. He barely moved Boozer too.


Agree, gotta give Boozie some credit. LeBron came full force and Booz, took it.

Did you hear LeBron complain about Heinrich "taking him down"...who is he kidding? He plowed into the guy at full speed...but post game his complaining about Heinrich taking him down?

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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:07 am 
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Hinrich is a hack,he tackled James. Bosh has always been soft. Wade is a dirty diva.

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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:53 am 
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bigfan wrote:
I know LBJ has all the talent in the world, but these guys are just such fucking douchebags!

Wade tumbling into the cameraman like he has attacked on a break away, Butler knew he didnt do anything so he walked away and as a Miracle comes down from the heavens, Wade was fine.

Wade committing a few other really cheap fouls and not getting called, to his credit, refs and the league let him do that shit.

LBJ when he tried to "Fight through" the pick by Boozer? He made no attempt to step over it and he eyed up Boozer for 5 seconds before that. Complete dick move, so much the refs took a look at it for the flagrant!

How many times can James just plow over "Kurt" and not get called for foul? James doesnt even try to put the ball up half the time, he just plows in looking for a foul.

I know James has the ability to recover, but the cherry picking he does is unreal.

And it is awfully nice for James and Wade to include the rest of the team in their plans after timeouts, when they huddle up and decide what the real play will be.

And if anyone thinks they respect Spoelstra, think again.

See LBJ walk out of the tunnel and a fan tried to reach down for a slap,as they do in every arena, just grazed James head and James stops, steps back and looked like he was gonna do something about it. I think he then thought it wouldn't be so cool to beat up the 8 year old!

James might have better PR people now, but he is still a fucking pud no matter how many games or rings he wins.


I believe I agree with each and every point.

I would add the ridiculous "ow, my jaw is broken in 38 places" act at the end of the game after Nate the midget caught him with a glancing blow with the side of his hand as he was heading to the rim. I though James was so very very very strong, how could a 3'2" guy hurt him? :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:09 am 
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Don Tiny wrote:
bigfan wrote:
I know LBJ has all the talent in the world, but these guys are just such fucking douchebags!

Wade tumbling into the cameraman like he has attacked on a break away, Butler knew he didnt do anything so he walked away and as a Miracle comes down from the heavens, Wade was fine.

Wade committing a few other really cheap fouls and not getting called, to his credit, refs and the league let him do that shit.

LBJ when he tried to "Fight through" the pick by Boozer? He made no attempt to step over it and he eyed up Boozer for 5 seconds before that. Complete dick move, so much the refs took a look at it for the flagrant!

How many times can James just plow over "Kurt" and not get called for foul? James doesnt even try to put the ball up half the time, he just plows in looking for a foul.

I know James has the ability to recover, but the cherry picking he does is unreal.

And it is awfully nice for James and Wade to include the rest of the team in their plans after timeouts, when they huddle up and decide what the real play will be.

And if anyone thinks they respect Spoelstra, think again.

See LBJ walk out of the tunnel and a fan tried to reach down for a slap,as they do in every arena, just grazed James head and James stops, steps back and looked like he was gonna do something about it. I think he then thought it wouldn't be so cool to beat up the 8 year old!

James might have better PR people now, but he is still a fucking pud no matter how many games or rings he wins.


I believe I agree with each and every point.

I would add the ridiculous "ow, my jaw is broken in 38 places" act at the end of the game after Nate the midget caught him with a glancing blow with the side of his hand as he was heading to the rim. I though James was so very very very strong, how could a 3'2" guy hurt him? :roll:
It's.called.gamesmanship.learn.the.difference.

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Last edited by badrogue17 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:14 am 
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Sorry Dan, I forgot..... :lol: :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:15 am 
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Oh God Brogue, I love you man but that's so annoying sometimes.

Anyway, are we really doing the Kirk Hinrich lovefest thing today guys? He gave a great effort last night and I give him props for that, but let's not start overrating him. He's been awful all year.

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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:30 am 
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Nas wrote:
I agree with a lot of that. I think Wade is a dirty player and they're both Diva's. I still question the mental toughness of LeBron. He cracked tonight. He barely moved Boozer too.




I can't agree with you on the toughness of LBJ. a 27 game winning streak, a ring last year and one moment in a game make you still question that? and boozer isn't a little kid. he's just as big as LBJ.


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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:32 am 
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I agree, notbob. I don't think we can ask the toughness question again of Lebron. He's already cleared that hurdle. He just had a bad night last night. That's really all there is to it.

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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:32 am 
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LeBron did a little bit of whining after the game about "non-basketball plays":

http://www.sbnation.com/2013/3/27/4155572/lebron-james-whines-about-foul-calls-after-chicago-snaps-heats?login=1364477213

This coming from a guy who didn't have a foul called on him for a TWO WEEK STRETCH earlier in the season. Now he wants to complain about NBA officiating?


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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:34 am 
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312player wrote:
Hinrich is a hack,he tackled James. Bosh has always been soft. Wade is a dirty diva.


Watch that James/Heinrich play again, James literally picks up the ball, bends down and plows into KURT! Yes, Heinrich did then grab onto James, when they are going to the floor, but it is ironic when I hear james crying about it "Not being a basketball play"...he should know because he is just doing a 4th and 1 into KURT!

Saw the truth come out on James last night, not the guy trying to be congenial for marketing purposes sake.

Sorry, but the guy is a total punk, who happens to be really good at BBall.

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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:34 am 
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Lebron had a damn good game.

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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:35 am 
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The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
Anyway, are we really doing the Kirk Hinrich lovefest thing today guys? He gave a great effort last night and I give him props for that, but let's not start overrating him. He's been awful all year.

Agreed.

I wouldn't call him awful this year though, cuz he's barely been on the court. I expect him to now miss the rest of the season with a bruised vagina.

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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:37 am 
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Oh u kinda agree, LBJ can't drop his shoulder like a fullback n knock the shit out of Guys n bitch when he gets wrapped up...but hinrich is a hack n I don't like him.

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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:38 am 
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bigfan wrote:
312player wrote:
Hinrich is a hack,he tackled James. Bosh has always been soft. Wade is a dirty diva.


Watch that James/Heinrich play again, James literally picks up the ball, bends down and plows into KURT! Yes, Heinrich did then grab onto James, when they are going to the floor, but it is ironic when I hear james crying about it "Not being a basketball play"...he should know because he is just doing a 4th and 1 into KURT!

Saw the truth come out on James last night, not the guy trying to be congenial for marketing purposes sake.

Sorry, but the guy is a total punk, who happens to be really good at BBall.


Truth.


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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:41 am 
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Heinrich is a broken down, little above a try hard guy that Johnny Pax loved and paid him WAYYYYYY more than he was worth.

He is a guy who needs to play big minutes in order to control a game tempo, but considering every week he has something new sprained, broke, strained, etc. he is less than an average player, who had a really good game last night.

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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:44 am 
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Anotherreason I don't like Paxil.

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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:44 am 
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I think the Heinrich play was more of a defensive move since Lebron was ready to just run him over like a Fullback. Definitely a foul, but not really dirty when looking at how the whole thing unfolded on that play.

The foul call on Gibson was fine. It was a good hard foul.

Lebron's flagrant foul was a little ridiculous I thought, and the refs could have let that one pass. At worst, the refs should have just called him for a personal foul, or maybe a technical if they thought it was very serious. I think at the point in the game where it happened, the refs just wanted to get the game under control before something really bad happened.

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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:45 am 
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bigfan wrote:
He is a guy who needs to play big minutes in order to control a game tempo, but considering every week he has something new sprained, broke, strained, etc. he is less than an average player, who had a really good game last night.

Well done Biggie. :cheers:

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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:55 am 
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Just hope he is on the train out of here next year.

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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:57 am 
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bigfan wrote:
Just hope he is on the train out of here next year.

Agreed. He's served his purpose. He'll be retired in two years and he'll come back as a Bulls ambassador.

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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:05 am 
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notbob wrote:
Nas wrote:
I agree with a lot of that. I think Wade is a dirty player and they're both Diva's. I still question the mental toughness of LeBron. He cracked tonight. He barely moved Boozer too.




I can't agree with you on the toughness of LBJ. a 27 game winning streak, a ring last year and one moment in a game make you still question that? and boozer isn't a little kid. he's just as big as LBJ.


Other than game 6 in Boston (best pressure game of his career) there wasn't a moment where LeBron had to be mentally tough for the Heat to win. There road to the Finals was fairly easy and then they went up against a team that was too friendly with LeBron. When you get in his face like the Bulls did last night and like the Mavs did a couple years ago he will crack. The Bulls gave the rest of the league the blue print to beat them. They don't like physical basketball. Winning a title is a shorten season doesn't make all of that go away.

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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:12 am 
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The LeBron shoulder hit was clearly a flagrant foul. He sized up Boozer and gave it his all but still barely moved him. I guess his football days are over.

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 Post subject: Re: Wade and James
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:00 pm 
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Someone should check on this guy to see if he didn't suffocate on Lebron's knob.

Edit: Also, this article makes no mention of Lebron's flagrant foul in the 4th quarter.
Quote:
Tackle Basketball for the win

By Henry Abbott
ESPN.com
Archive

Before the game, Bulls Coach Tom Thibodeau predicted a "cage match."

Physicality, in other words, would be Chicago's solution to Miami's big, strong and super-quick LeBron James and Dwyane Wade, who tend to make layup after layup. Good solid defense doesn't cut it against those two. The recipe? When they get a step on their defenders, when layups and dunks look likely ... tackle them, hit them, bring them down out of the sky.

It started a few minutes into the game, when an eager Kirk Hinrich, despite having perfect defensive position, crashed into an open-court James rather than attempt to strip the ball, draw the charge or contest at the rim. Minutes later Hinrich was directly in James' path, in position to draw a charge or try to poke the ball away. His move? A bear hug that ended with his own head whacking the floor hard.

Moments later, James was zeroing in on a reverse layup or dunk, and the Bulls' Taj Gibson -- in no position to touch the ball -- swung hard and connected with his hand directly to James' head. Instead of dunking, James ended up on the floor, checking his teeth. And that was just the first quarter.

Why, again, is this fun to watch?

Although the Heat have sent the league video of hard fouls on James and Wade, with particular emphasis on hits to the head, players like James seldom admit such things affect them -- even as a growing body of data suggests the best players put off driving when they don't feel they have to.

Two weeks ago James denied hard fouls affected his thinking, saying after a win in Philadelphia: "I'm a football player. I'm good. I can't worry about what may happen. I live in the moment. I'm an attack guy. I'm an attack player. I don't really make my mark on the perimeter."

But after the loss to the Bulls, James was more frank, telling ESPN.com's Michael Wallace: "A lot of my fouls are not basketball plays. First of all, Kirk Hinrich in the first quarter basically grabbed me with two hands and brought me to the ground. The last one, Taj Gibson was able to collar me around my shoulder and bring me to the ground. Those are not defensive ... those are not basketball plays."

In an era when the NBA is watching closely to reduce concussions and head injuries, James was obviously hit hard in the head by Gibson twice, and also endured an open-court collaring that was initially ruled a flagrant. James' head also was struck once by a driving Nate Robinson, and for good measure, again as a parting gift from a Bulls fan as James made his way, after the loss, to the locker room. Wade also was sent sprawling to the floor spectacularly and regularly.

On ESPN, Bill Simmons called Wednesday night's Bulls win over the Heat the most important regular-season game since the 1990s. The winning strategy was from the 1990s, too. It's called Tackle Basketball.

It's not an accident. It's strategy that works because of a loophole in the NBA's rules.

Stu Jackson is the NBA vice president of basketball operations, the man responsible for keeping those rules dialed in correctly. He's frank that he hates how the famously rough Knicks played back in the day, and touts rule changes as having made the game much more pleasing, and about artistry. Jackson says "that what keeps us up at night" in his department is the fear that the game would return to the artless way it was played in the 1990s.

I wonder how Jackson and crew slept last night.

This is not about babying James or anybody else. This is about the league encouraging the best possible version of the game, the one that works best for players and fans. Would you rather see James dunk, or get hit in the head? Would you rather see Hinrich meet James in the air, or in a bear hug?

This is ultimately about answering this question: What is basketball, and is tackling part of it?

The walls of my office are covered in hoops books. Some are of the “how to play” variety. I just took a stack of them -- by everyone from Walt Frazier to John Wooden -- over to a comfortable seat and spent an hour reading up on how the experts say good defense ought to be played.

They talk about footwork and brains. They talk about keeping your torso between your man and the basket, staying on the balls of your feet, knees bent, hands up and mind alert. They talk about staying on the ground for fakes and talking to teammates. They also talk about many layers of thought: tracking both the ball and your man, memorizing the tendencies of every player on the court, knowing who likes to go left, who telegraphs passes, who never passes, whom you should never leave open.

It’s the art and science of basketball, in a shape-shifting formula of movement, work ethic, preparation, smarts, muscle and know-how, all working toward the common goal: Making sure you don’t get beat.

But in the NBA in 2013, even if you do get beat ... defenses have one move left, and it’s not described in books.

The move goes like this: That guy with the ball? Clobber him. The harder the better.

It happens in every game, every night.

We tell ourselves fouls are mistakes, a surplus of effort or grit from players going a bit too hard trying to play the kind of defense described in those books. And some fouls are like that.

Other times it’s a lot less nuanced. Other times it has nothing to do with basketball. Instead, it’s the opposite of sportsmanship.

Many of the players doing this are among the nicest in sports. They are neither imbalanced, deranged nor in need of help.

So why would generally even-keeled men endanger their colleagues by making what should be the game’s prettiest plays -- flashy finishes at the rim -- into the ugly kind of basketball that is proven to turn off casual fans?

They’re doing it because it works. The fact of the matter is that, because of a flaw in the NBA rulebook that’s only truly becoming clear, it’s almost always better for NBA teams to foul really hard than give up a layup or dunk. The cost of the hard foul is a pittance compared to the benefits. They don't just stop fantastic baskets, they also make potent scorers think twice about driving at all. Everyone on the court knows a couple of free throws is a bargain for all that.

That’s why these days very hard foulers are getting high-fives from teammates and pats on the backs from coaches; they are helping their team win on a technicality.

And it’s going to keep happening until the league does something about it.

_________________
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
I am not a legal expert, how many times do I have to say it?


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