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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:53 am 
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conns7901 wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:

Arent female wrestlers winning state titles against boys?


There is like one case of a female wrestler winning a state title in this country at the smallest weight class which is typically made up of fresh and soph boys. Glenbard North had a girl qualify for state at 103 pounds a few years back. The next year she was bumped out of the lineup by a boy and could never get back in.

If you were take all of the Women's Olympic gold Medalist in track and place them in the IHSA Boys 3A track and field state championships, none of them would win individual titles. That is a statistical fact and not an opinion.


Prove it.

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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:54 am 
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Nas wrote:
Similar things have been said about women when it came to doing other jobs and many ethnic groups. My believe is we won't truly know UNTIL they are given the opportunity to try.
They have been though. They struggle in recreational league games at colleges all around the country.

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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:58 am 
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Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:

I've heard that argument made a few times and history has proven it to be incorrect.



How is that?


Similar things have been said about women when it came to doing other jobs and many ethnic groups. My believe is we won't truly know UNTIL they are given the opportunity to try.

I sort of agree with your point right here, but it's a fact that there are biological and physiological differences between the sexes. To deny that is to sound as foolish as a Republican saying that a woman's vagina can secretly destroy sperm from a rape.

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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:59 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:

I've heard that argument made a few times and history has proven it to be incorrect.



How is that?


Similar things have been said about women when it came to doing other jobs and many ethnic groups. My believe is we won't truly know UNTIL they are given the opportunity to try.


Could you give me an example?


I'll leave the ethic groups out because I imagine you can figure those out without any help. These are a few things that once upon a time we heard women COULDN'T do:


Police Officer
Front lines in a war
Firefighter
Run a country
Run a business
Construction worker
Auto mechanic
Beat a man at a high level in any sport

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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:02 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:

I've heard that argument made a few times and history has proven it to be incorrect.



How is that?


Similar things have been said about women when it came to doing other jobs and many ethnic groups. My believe is we won't truly know UNTIL they are given the opportunity to try.


Nas - I think you may mean women and other groups were dismissed on intellectual grounds, not physical. It used to be that African Americans and women were not capable of certain tasks because they were inferior intellectually to Whites, but we've thankfully moved past those baseless assumptions. But in terms of biology and physical strength, the differences between men and women are well documented on medical, anatomical, and anthropological grounds. There's nothing discriminatory about that - women can still enter the military and apply for labor-intensive jobs - but to paraphrase Joe Orr, it's difficult to imagine a woman, no matter how physically strong she may be, throwing elbows in the post with some of the beasts that populate the NBA.

I think another equally interesting hypothetical about women and the NBA is a woman coach, or assistant coach. I think that's more realistic than a woman player, although I could be wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:02 pm 
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Nas wrote:

I'll leave the ethic groups out because I imagine you can figure those out without any help. These are a few things that once upon a time we heard women COULDN'T do:


Police Officer
Front lines in a war
Firefighter
Run a country
Run a business
Construction worker
Auto mechanic
Beat a man at a high level in any sport



And I would suggest that they can't do the physical jobs on that list as well as a man and our society has made accomodations to allow them to do those jobs anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:03 pm 
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Nas wrote:

Prove it.


:roll:
100m dash
Tavaris Binion (Jr.), Darien (Hinsdale South) 10.53
Shelly-Ann Fraser-Pryce JAM 10.75

200m Dash
Darvell Harris (Sr.), Chicago (Dunbar) 21.44
Allyson Felix USA 21.88

400m dash
Antonio Farley (Sr.), Round Lake 48.29
Sanya Richards-Ross USA 49.55

800m Run
Michal Filipczak (Sr.), Park Ridge (Maine South) 1:52.01
Mariya Savinova RUS 1:56.19

The next event is my favorite. Keep in mind women run 100 meters less.
1500
Asli Cakir Alptekin TUR 4:10.23
1600
Leland Later (Sr.), Winnetka (New Trier) 4:09.95

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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:04 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:

I think another equally interesting hypothetical about women and the NBA is a woman coach, or assistant coach. I think that's more realistic than a woman player, although I could be wrong.


Pat Summit!


no NBA player would ever respect a woman coach


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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:05 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:

I think another equally interesting hypothetical about women and the NBA is a woman coach, or assistant coach. I think that's more realistic than a woman player, although I could be wrong.


Pat Summit!


no NBA player would ever respect a woman coach



But at least she wouldn't be wearing a tie for the GM to grab.

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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:06 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:

I've heard that argument made a few times and history has proven it to be incorrect.



How is that?


Similar things have been said about women when it came to doing other jobs and many ethnic groups. My believe is we won't truly know UNTIL they are given the opportunity to try.

I sort of agree with your point right here, but it's a fact that there are biological and physiological differences between the sexes. To deny that is to sound as foolish as a Republican saying that a woman's vagina can secretly destroy sperm from a rape.


This is what makes you sound like one of those republicans. Just because something may be true for MOST doesn't mean it should apply to all. This has been proven. Sure there are things right now that MOST women can't do better than a man (the opposite is also true) but that does not mean that a woman like Griner can't be the exception.

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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:08 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:

I think another equally interesting hypothetical about women and the NBA is a woman coach, or assistant coach. I think that's more realistic than a woman player, although I could be wrong.


Pat Summit!


no NBA player would ever respect a woman coach


That would be sad if true. There's no reason as a basketball player to not respect a person who knows how to coach basketball, man or woman. It'd be different if that person didn't know what he was doing, like Mike D'Antoni.

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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:08 pm 
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Griner can barely dunk in a game against players who can't even touch the rim. I would hate to see what an NBA player would do with that.

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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:08 pm 
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Nas wrote:
This is what makes you sound like one of those republicans. Just because something may be true for MOST doesn't mean it should apply to all. This has been proven. Sure there are things right now that MOST women can't do better than a man (the opposite is also true) but that does not mean that a woman like Griner can't be the exception.



But that's one of the beauties of pro sports. They really are a true meritocracy. Nobody is barring her from playing. If she could go, some team would give her a shot. But she can't go.

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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:09 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Bagels wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:

I think another equally interesting hypothetical about women and the NBA is a woman coach, or assistant coach. I think that's more realistic than a woman player, although I could be wrong.


Pat Summit!


no NBA player would ever respect a woman coach


That would be sad if true. There's no reason as a basketball player to not respect a person who knows how to coach basketball, man or woman. It'd be different if that person didn't know what he was doing, like Mike D'Antoni.


i don't disagree with you, but i still think it would be true


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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:09 pm 
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immessedup17 wrote:
Krazy Ivan wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
After hearing an interview she had with ESPN... somehow that is a man. Barry White voice.


Never heard her talk before?

Don't think so. Sportscenter brings up women's basketball and I flip the station. I was falling asleep to ESPN radio some nights ago...it came on then.



Did it cause any......interesting dreams?

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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:10 pm 
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Krazy Ivan wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
Krazy Ivan wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
After hearing an interview she had with ESPN... somehow that is a man. Barry White voice.


Never heard her talk before?

Don't think so. Sportscenter brings up women's basketball and I flip the station. I was falling asleep to ESPN radio some nights ago...it came on then.



Did it cause any......interesting dreams?


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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:11 pm 
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Join us next time as people try to convince the board that Alabama's football team could beat some of the NFL teams.

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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:12 pm 
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Just another point on physical strength, while there are differences between the sexes in terms of strength, it's also valid to say the strength of each gender is demonstrated in different ways. For example, the amount of pain women bear while pregnant and during birth is enormous, and perhaps they're wired in ways that a man isn't to handle that kind of physical labor.

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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:12 pm 
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My friends who are in their 30s have a girl who occasionally plays with them. She was D1 players and played professionally and still in her 20s. All of these guys were high school athletes and only one played basketball. She can shoot when open but can't guard anyone or keep up running down the court.

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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:13 pm 
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i think someone should call up and suggest this possibility to B&B


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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:13 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Join us next time as people try to convince the board that Alabama's football team could beat some of the NFL teams.


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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:14 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:

I've heard that argument made a few times and history has proven it to be incorrect.



How is that?


Similar things have been said about women when it came to doing other jobs and many ethnic groups. My believe is we won't truly know UNTIL they are given the opportunity to try.


Nas - I think you may mean women and other groups were dismissed on intellectual grounds, not physical. It used to be that African Americans and women were not capable of certain tasks because they were inferior intellectually to Whites, but we've thankfully moved past those baseless assumptions. But in terms of biology and physical strength, the differences between men and women are well documented on medical, anatomical, and anthropological grounds. There's nothing discriminatory about that - women can still enter the military and apply for labor-intensive jobs - but to paraphrase Joe Orr, it's difficult to imagine a woman, no matter how physically strong she may be, throwing elbows in the post with some of the beasts that populate the NBA.

I think another equally interesting hypothetical about women and the NBA is a woman coach, or assistant coach. I think that's more realistic than a woman player, although I could be wrong.


There are also things that "they" said whites couldn't do as well as blacks and other ethnic groups. Those things may have been true for MOST but we've all seen exceptions.

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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:16 pm 
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I didnt mean she could start or be successful, but I think she could be the 12th man on a roster.

She would certainly out rebound Eddy Curry.

He would literally just stand there and she would walk by him and jump up and get the ball


Conns, Ive seen you post those track times before. I dont think that proves anything here. Yes, men are generally faster, but speed isnt everything.


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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:18 pm 
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Nas wrote:
There are also things that "they" said whites couldn't do as well as blacks and other ethnic groups. Those things may have been true for MOST but we've all seen exceptions.


I still think you've got to differentiate between mental/intellectual, and physical. A lot of the examples you posted of work that women were thought unable to do have nothing to do with physical labor. We are talking muscles, stamina, speed and other markers of physical ability, all of which are dependent upon one's physiological makeup.

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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:18 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
I didnt mean she could start or be successful, but I think she could be the 12th man on a roster.

She would certainly out rebound Eddy Curry.

He would literally just stand there and she would walk by him and jump up and get the ball


Conns, Ive seen you post those track times before. I dont think that proves anything here. Yes, men are generally faster, but speed isnt everything.


You are seriously disregarding how good of a player the 12th man on an NBA roster is.

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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:19 pm 
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Nas wrote:
There are also things that "they" said whites couldn't do as well as blacks and other ethnic groups.



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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:20 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
I didnt mean she could start or be successful, but I think she could be the 12th man on a roster.

She would certainly out rebound Eddy Curry.

He would literally just stand there and she would walk by him and jump up and get the ball


Conns, Ive seen you post those track times before. I dont think that proves anything here. Yes, men are generally faster, but speed isnt everything.


You are seriously disregarding how good of a player the 12th man on an NBA roster is.

Hmm. Maybe.


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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:20 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
I didnt mean she could start or be successful, but I think she could be the 12th man on a roster.

She would certainly out rebound Eddy Curry.

He would literally just stand there and she would walk by him and jump up and get the ball


Conns, Ive seen you post those track times before. I dont think that proves anything here. Yes, men are generally faster, but speed isnt everything.

Killer V could out rebound Curry.

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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:22 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Join us next time as people try to convince the board that Alabama's football team could beat some of the NFL teams.

This argument is always overstated.

Yes, the pro team would win but people act like it would be a joke.

Im sorry but UNLV's teams could give bad NBA teams a game back then.

I know that because they DID a year later when they were all drafted and became instant contributors.


What changed in those 7 months?


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 Post subject: Re: Brittney Griner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:22 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Nas wrote:
There are also things that "they" said whites couldn't do as well as blacks and other ethnic groups. Those things may have been true for MOST but we've all seen exceptions.


I still think you've got to differentiate between mental/intellectual, and physical. A lot of the examples you posted of work that women were thought unable to do have nothing to do with physical labor. We are talking muscles, stamina, speed and other markers of physical ability, all of which are dependent upon one's physiological makeup.


Some were part of their biological makeup and the others were part of the physiological makeup. All have been proven to not ALWAYS be true.

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