Chris Sale extension

Frank Coztansa · **Posted:** Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:48 am

Now you're on the trolley, FF!

FavreFan · **Posted:** Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:50 am

rogers park bryan wrote:

Frank Coztansa wrote:

Apologist wrote:

I was going to post something similar. Nobody can be expected to keep up a pace like that... except maybe 1999-2003 'vintage Pedro.

or Bob Gibson.

Gibson wouldnt have put up those numbers from 99-03 like Pedro did.

Reminds me of that story with Bill Russell and I think it was Bob Costas,

Bob: How well do you think you would do if you were playing in today's game?
Bill: I think I would probably average about 10 ppg
Bob: Really? Thats it?
Bill: Well Bob, I am 75 years old.

pittmike · **Posted:** Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:09 am

FavreFan wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

Frank Coztansa wrote:

Apologist wrote:

I was going to post something similar. Nobody can be expected to keep up a pace like that... except maybe 1999-2003 'vintage Pedro.

or Bob Gibson.

Gibson wouldnt have put up those numbers from 99-03 like Pedro did.

Reminds me of that story with Bill Russell and I think it was Bob Costas,

Bob: How well do you think you would do if you were playing in today's game?
Bill: I think I would probably average about 10 ppg
Bob: Really? Thats it?
Bill: Well Bob, I am 75 years old.

Elmhurst Steve · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:28 am

Frank Coztansa wrote:

Yep, I called him out on the same shit last year. When Sale was named an All Star, he said that Sale would put up worse numbers in the 2nd half of the season. He was 10-2 with a 2.19ERA with 98K in 102.2 IP at the break.

You are full of shit as usual. What I said, was that Sale's performance level would tail off and his ERA would be OVER A FULL RUN higher in the 2nd half as the innings piled up. His ERA was indeed over a full run higher including a 4.11 ERA and 2-3 record in September. His velocity on the fastball was down as much as 6 mph in starts in September, when he should have been shut down. The fact is the dramatic increase in innings has left Sale suseptible to injury.

Frank Coztansa · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:40 am

Steve,

Please explain to me how 2 is greater than 5; viewtopic.php?f=32&t=57558&p=1672160#p1672160

bigfan · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:43 am

I hope Chris Sale wins a CY Young or 3, and a few MVP's!

But, someone wanted him in the bullpen!

Frank Coztansa · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:44 am

Since you are all things White Sox, I'm sure you know that the Sox have started young guys out in the bullpen before moving them into the rotation.

jimmypasta · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:45 am

Good for Chris Sale. He made the jump from the bullpen and it's working out pretty good for him and the Sox.

Elmhurst Steve · **Posted:** Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:50 pm

Elmhurst Steve wrote:

Sale went from 71 to 192 innings pitched last season. The wear and tear showed during the last month of the season particularly. I will be shocked if Sale does not have a stint on the DL this season as a result of the abuse his arm withstood last year. He will probably begin the season strong, but about 6 weeks or so into the season, I will be looking for a break-down. The risk of losing him IN 4 YEARS, was not one I would have allowed myself to consider so strong, that I sign him now. Perhaps 2-3 years from now, but not now. Allow him to get through the next couple seasons and see if he has any injury issues or not. But to take on this commitment before its necessary, is foolish. If he stays healthy, it's a very good deal for the Sox. But I suspect Sale signed it now, because his arm was already bothering him last season when he was shut down for a start on a couple occassions, and he fears that an injury is a real likely possibility. Bad move, as was the Peavy re-signing. peavy went from 111 innings to 219 innings last season and had spent over a year on the DL in each of the previous 5 seasons. The expectation that he will stay healthy again this season after all the wear he endured in 2012 is also foolish. I see both having problems AND BEING LESS EFFECTIVEWHEN HEALTHY in 2013.

The GM has made so many errors already here in his first year that it's tough to imagine Hahn lasting long.....or having much success before being replaced.

Frank Coztansa · **Posted:** Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:51 pm

Frank Coztansa wrote:

Steve,

Please explain to me how 2 is greater than 5; viewtopic.php?f=32&t=57558&p=1672160#p1672160

Darkside · **Posted:** Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:52 pm

Steve, also when done with Frank's request there, tell me again about how Dempster was signed "last winter" when the contract was inked December 19, two full days before winter actually began.

Elmhurst Steve · **Posted:** Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:03 pm

Darkside wrote:

Steve, tell me again about how Dempster was signed "last winter" when the contract was inked December 19, two full days before winter actually began.

March, April and May are spring months. June, July and August are Summer months. September, October and November are Fall months and December, January and February are Winter months.

Frank Coztansa · **Posted:** Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:08 pm

Steve,

Please explain to me how 2 is greater than 5; viewtopic.php?f=32&

Darkside · **Posted:** Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:09 pm

Elmhurst Steve wrote:

Darkside wrote:

Steve, tell me again about how Dempster was signed "last winter" when the contract was inked December 19, two full days before winter actually began.

March, April and May are spring months. June, July and August are Summer months. September, October and November are Fall months and December, January and February are Winter months.

That's just not accurate. Don't you know simple seasons? They teach that shit in fucking grade school.
Winter starts on Dec. 21st (most years, 2012 being one of them).
You're a fool. A fool who doesn't even know when winter starts.
Face it. December 19 is in Autumn. You're a moron.

Here's some reading. It should take you about an hour to get thru this so maybe check it out next time you're taking a shit.

Quote:

Astronomically, the winter solstice, being the day of the year which has fewest hours of daylight, ought to be the middle of the season,[7][8] but seasonal lag means that the coldest period normally follows the solstice by a few weeks. In the USA and Canada (and sometimes in Britain) the season is regarded as beginning at the solstice and ending on the following equinox[9][10] – in the Northern Hemisphere, depending on the year, this corresponds to the period between 21 or 22 December and 19, 20 or 21 March

Elmhurst Steve · **Posted:** Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:20 pm

SHARK wrote:

5 years for Chris Sale? I know he was outstanding this past season for the White Sox, but I'm not so sure this is a smart idea financially. Since Jerry Reinsdorf bought the White Sox in 1981, it's not like the Sox to pay a pitcher this kind of money for 5 years unless they think Sale can avoid injury like Mark Buehrle before he bolted a year ago as a free agent.

Think of the last couple of long term, big money deals they either signed a pitcher to or assumed in a trade.....Peavy, who was injured every season except the last one and went 25-25 in the years after being aquired from the Padres, before that huge contract expired. They were so inspired by that production Hahn signed Peavy to another deal :roll:

Then there is the deal they signed John Danks to

. Lets see, he was 0-4 last season in 5 games and is 0-2 with an ERA over 16.00 this season, before being placed (again) on the DL. Well, the idea of signing another pitcher to a long term deal 4 years before they had to just seems like a natural for this team. Maybe they will want to trade for Johan Santana next.

bigfan · **Posted:** Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:14 am

Frank Coztansa wrote:

Since you are all things White Sox, I'm sure you know that the Sox have started young guys out in the bullpen before moving them into the rotation.

I must have missed when Danks was in the pen, same with McCarthy,

It is almost amazing how Frank ignores facts of Kenny Williams wanting Sale to be a closer and it took Sale to call Kenny and fight with him about it.

Then again, Kenny might have been right about Sales velocity issues over the long run.

But then again, I am sure frank is much smarter than the guys at Fangraphs who provided this chart of Sales average velocity reduction. Go ahead Frank, explain it to all us idiots.

bigfan · **Posted:** Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:16 am

Sorry Sox fans, you just cant be on both sides of the fence and still tell me it's greener on the other side.

Either it is bad to sign pitchers to long term deals or it isnt.

It isnt just good when the Sox sign a player to a long term deal.

Signed

Jamie Navarro

Rod · **Posted:** Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:31 am

It's generally bad to sign pitchers to long term deals, but in certain special cases (Buehrle, Sale) you need to do it. Also, McCarthy was a reliever/spot starter when the Sox first brought him up. I think he pretty much worked out of the bullpen the entire 2006 season.

bigfan · **Posted:** Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:21 am

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

It's generally bad to sign pitchers to long term deals, but in certain special cases (Buehrle, Sale) you need to do it. Also, McCarthy was a reliever/spot starter when the Sox first brought him up. I think he pretty much worked out of the bullpen the entire 2006 season.

McCarthy Started 10 of his first 12 games in the majors.

Gonna say he was a starter he reverted to the pen in year 2, maybe his first full season, but 12 games and 10 starts is more than a Sept callup.

Sale you did not NEED to do it, you chose to do it with the hope of saving money in the future. BIG BIG difference from "Needing" to do so.

Rod · **Posted:** Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:54 am

bigfan wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

It's generally bad to sign pitchers to long term deals, but in certain special cases (Buehrle, Sale) you need to do it. Also, McCarthy was a reliever/spot starter when the Sox first brought him up. I think he pretty much worked out of the bullpen the entire 2006 season.

McCarthy Started 10 of his first 12 games in the majors.

Gonna say he was a starter he reverted to the pen in year 2, maybe his first full season, but 12 games and 10 starts is more than a Sept callup.

Sale you did not NEED to do it, you chose to do it with the hope of saving money in the future. BIG BIG difference from "Needing" to do so.

But when you look at what mediocre guys like Edwin Jackson, Anibal Sanchez, and "Losing Pitcher" John Danks cost, you really can't risk a guy like this getting to free agency. It's a good gamble. Even if he isn't close to what you hope, you're still getting him for what a 3/4 veteran costs.

Hatchetman · **Posted:** Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:14 pm

Some pitchers will take a low-ball offer, some won't.

bigfan · **Posted:** Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:24 pm

Hatchetman wrote:

Some pitchers will take a low-ball offer, some won't.

I agree and when the owner has a history of convincing guys to stay, I think it is a good risk that you would have got a hometown discount with Sale.

He doesnt seem like a guy who likes change, being with the team that drafted him, I think would have counted for something.

BUT

This is just as much about Rick Hahn getting one of his early wishes as well.

Elmhurst Steve · **Posted:** Fri May 24, 2013 6:53 am

Keeping Score wrote:

Bruce Levine ‏@ESPNBruceLevine 3m
Chris Sale scratched from His start Weds with sore left shoulder. Expected to only miss one start.

3.......2........1.......

Tip of the iceberg. When they say tendonitis, it means they don't know whats really wrong. Every pitcher has tendonitis. Shoulder problems....much worse than elbow problems. Tommy John leaves a pitcher better than before surgery. A pitcher that has shoulder surgery is usually never the same. Not to say that surgery is gonna be needed anytime soon. Just saying that shoulder issues are worse issues involving the ulner collateral ligament. I said he was gonna have problems this season and here it begins. It will get worse.

pittmike · **Posted:** Fri May 24, 2013 7:57 am

Tendinitis is also used every day by doctors to basically say you are sore.

Frank Coztansa · **Posted:** Fri May 24, 2013 8:14 am

Elmhurst Stev's first wife wrote:

I said he was gonna have problems this season and here it begins. It will get worse.

Darkside · **Posted:** Fri May 24, 2013 7:48 pm

Elmhurst Steve wrote:

Tip of the iceberg. When they say tendonitis, it means they don't know whats really wrong. Every pitcher has tendonitis. Shoulder problems....much worse than elbow problems. Tommy John leaves a pitcher better than before surgery. A pitcher that has shoulder surgery is usually never the same. Not to say that surgery is gonna be needed anytime soon. Just saying that shoulder issues are worse issues involving the ulner collateral ligament. I said he was gonna have problems this season and here it begins. It will get worse.

yeah, a lot of us heard that on the Score too.
Any thoughts of your own?

Elmhurst Steve · **Posted:** Sat May 25, 2013 6:30 pm

Darkside wrote:

Elmhurst Steve wrote:

Tip of the iceberg. When they say tendonitis, it means they don't know whats really wrong. Every pitcher has tendonitis. Shoulder problems....much worse than elbow problems. Tommy John leaves a pitcher better than before surgery. A pitcher that has shoulder surgery is usually never the same. Not to say that surgery is gonna be needed anytime soon. Just saying that shoulder issues are worse issues involving the ulner collateral ligament. I said he was gonna have problems this season and here it begins. It will get worse.

yeah, a lot of us heard that on the Score too.
Any thoughts of your own?

I did not hear that, but anyone that has pitched knows that, as well as the fact that he probably has a labrum tear. Most pitchers experience labrum tears and yet are able to pitch anyway. When the tears become too great, then it can be problematic, requiring surgery. But almost every pitcher has labrum damage.

Martin_D · **Posted:** Sun May 26, 2013 10:03 am

Anthony Rizzo isn't worth Sale, Santiago, or Quintana. Sox rebuilding going much better than Cubs.

RFDC · **Joined:** Sun May 11, 2008 4:11 pm **Posts:** 57251

Martin_D wrote:

Anthony Rizzo isn't worth Sale, Santiago, or Quintana.

Completely stupid thought.

Sale is the goods. Rizzo is better than Santiago and Quintana together.

Terry's Peeps · **Posted:** Sun May 26, 2013 10:07 am

RFDC wrote:

Martin_D wrote:

Anthony Rizzo isn't worth Sale, Santiago, or Quintana.

Completely stupid thought.

Sale is the goods. Rizzo is better than Santiago and Quintana together.

If you're gonna argue with someone trolling, at least make it dolphin or Frank.

Chris Sale extension

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