Would you let your kids do the same "unquided" (and unescorted) tour at 10:00 p.m. on a Saturday night? I suppose 10:00 p.m. and night are redundant, so I would assume that arriving home around midnight is perfectly cool too?[/quote]

No, I would go to the game.

High school games are 7 innings and don't take three hours to play. It does not take two hours to get home from Brooks to Payton. Even if it did, for the sake of argument, I would have no problem with my child, THREE MONTHS AWAY FROM HIS FIRST DAY OF COLLEGE, coming home at midnight, on a Saturday, when I knew where he was.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

RPB,

So you wouldn't let your kid play at Mount Carmel on a Friday Night?

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I probably would because in my head that place has been determined safe and I know so many people that have played there

Im aware that's not rational

It's funny, the Payton team my son's school played about a month ago showed up & had at least a half dozen parents arriving separately. And with their own cars. In the middle of a weekday afternoon. Two miles south & in a similar neighborhood. But now they've complained about the lack of a school bus to bring 12-15 kids?!? Or suggested that their precious little babies were actually going to have to catch the Halsted St. bus Or that there were AP classes that conflicted or prevented them from practice (& therefore playing in the game).

Despite the team's proven ability to play & lose a game earlier that afternoon.

Or that their little precious babies were tired from the earlier game? Even though during their likely travel schedules that will require/has required them to play 3 games on a hot July day...that the parents are certain to get them there for (since most were 10yrs. old). And the overwhelming majority of kids playing baseball in this CPS/Jackie Robinson conference actually play travel ball.

Virtually every moderately decent HS has parents coming out of the woodwork to attend their kids' events. Many are even at night. And guess what, many can bring 1-2 players with them(like they almost always do during the travel league schedule). Then those parents came up with more bs excuses, just like I assumed they would.

At least they try when they think their kids can win...then give 'em excuses when you're too cowardly to have them even try.

Good parenting my ass.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Im not sure what any of that has to do with a dangerous situation

If you're saying its not dangerous, ok. But it seems your just bitching about baseball parents.

That's not where the good parenting line came in

Rogue is saying not putting your child in a dangerous situation is good parenting. Im certain you agree.

Earlier I pointed out that the campus is less than 3/4 of a mile from the expressway. To get there you pass Area 2 HQ of the Chicago Police. The drive down 111th (a major street) is a quick and safe ride, through a relatively safe area. The first 1/2 of the drive is in an area dominated by a 15 story bank & campus, a Walmart & mall under construction and that mammoth police station. When you arrive there you are on a mammoth & beautiful campus that does not have security problems.

The parents are full of it.

The kids weren't in a dangerous situation, any moreso than my kids would be in Crestwood, Orland, Tinley or Palos @ 9-10p on a Saturday. Except maybe to their egos, if they lost. Again.

Shielding your child from the real world & taking a hysterical & wrong headed approach to life events isn't exactly good parenting imo. Making up as many hollow bs excuses to defend their otherwise indefensibile position isn't either.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Basically Payton parents didn't want to lose again so they used the neighborhood as an excuse.

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Ok, so not dangerous. Fine.



First off, those neighborhoods dont have a history of violence and being overrun by it.

Maybe this neighborhood doesnt either, but that is what's being alleged

Seconldy, Have you been to any of those suburbs recently?

Your kids would be in ZERO danger






This is my question

Are there any places you wouldnt bring your kids because of frequent violence?

I dont think that's shielding from the real world. Its shielding from gang violence.

That's a nice concise way of putting it that could have saved us all a lot of time.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I didnt say they're werent idiots who yell stupid shit. Thats not physically dangerous.




And I will defer to you on that because I dont know the neighborhood. Ive conceded that.


[/quote]
I dont know what THOSE PEOPLE is supposed to mean. You mean gang members who shoot people?

No, there are not gang issue and violence everywhere. Not even close.

There are areas where shootings happen every weekend and there are areas where shootings happen about once every ten years.

JEsus christ, dolphin. You'd think after 8 fucking years here you would have figured out the quote function.

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I am the worst. I almost feel like I would be letting my public down if I got better.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Ok, Im starting with the premise of a very violent area. Legit violence having nothing to do with ego or being afraid of losing.

If that is the kind of neighborhood, I can see parents being concerned.

As far as the Orland, Crestwood etc thing. I dont think they compare with areas with a lot of gun violence. Maybe its not this area, but I think there are extemely high risk locations in a city where 40 shootings in a weekend is not rare.

And you said "those people" to me. I dont say or think "those people" so that is why I took exception. Its like you're arguing against the Payton parents but directly at me. Im not defending them or this situation. I was just surprised how people seem to be saying there are no neighborhoods they would avoid.

A big part of the problem is that you are taking the most insulated kids in CPS and making excuses to further insulate them. It looks and sounds horrible.

Again though, these are 18 year old kids. They deserve to take some of the blame for following their parents opinions. These are supposed to be the leaders of the very near future and they refuse to make an adult decision on a fairly low stress question.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

It's mildly surprising that you are taking exception here. The Payton parents first floated this red herring about the neighborhood and by your posts, you seem to endorse their position. You've consistently asked if there were neighborhoods we would avoid sending our kids to, as if this (around Brooks) was unquestionably one for you...without you having any apparent understanding of the school campus, the drive there and the area through which you'd drive.

On one hand you in posts accept that the area might not be that bad. The problem is that you next turn and suggest that the area gang activity would, like the Payton parents originally asserted, prevent you from sending your own child to an event there. And then you seem to share in the Payton parents' seeming disinterest in accompanying your teenaged son to this event to allay your own fears. Or even investigating if your concerns were well grounded in fact.

The parents tossed out a number of wholly empty reasons why their kids couldn't go, especially after they & the school were publicly embarrassed. Their reasons have largely been debunked, and shown to be hollow. But you seem to want to persist in defending and aligning yourself with them here. If you want to continue in this vein, you have to wear a little of what the Payton parents are, like it or not.

Just my opinion in this limited discussion.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

So you're really going with how safe that neighborhood is huh? I'm sure there are a couple sets of parents who live within a few blocks of a certain south side home that has a permanent patrol assigned to it and the surrounding area along with the Secret Service thrown in who somehow have seen their kids get gunned down in the last few weeks despite that. It's cool though, you think it's a safe area I don't. You're a parent, you want your kids to play games at that beautiful campus where nothing is going to happen that's fine.I don't . I'll somehow have to live knowing my hysterical approach to parenting my son is wrong headed and indefensible. Good talk.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Lay off a little. He's not a kid of the streets like you and I.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

You have completely misinterpreted my posts. Couldnt be further from the truth if you tried.

I have no idea about that neighborhood (Completely honest, I have no idea where it is) so I couldnt possibly endorse or deride the Payton parents.

Every one of my posts in this thread has asked hypothetical questions because the first few posts seems to indicate that not wanting to go to a game in ANY area is wrong and sheltering kids.

I have repeatedly NOT named the school and have given examples including one in California.

I didnt suggest gang activity. Gang Activity exists in Chicago. I used as an extreme example of a generic "dangerous neighborhood"


Please stop painting me into a corner with the Payton parents because Im asking a legitimate question about the limits people would have with this sort of thing.

I have said ZERO about Payton and the other team and its campus specifically

Lay off?

As in "Stop arguing a bunch of stuff rpb didnt say?"


You know I said nothing about payton and kept it hypothetical because you answered.

The area you travel through to get there isn't Lake Forest, no, but it's normally quiet, especially the police station/Cook Cty Circuit Court and Walmart/Bank/Mall campuses that largely dominate the drive to the massive and safe HS campus not too dissimilar from say Lincoln Way West. But you want to be hyperbolic, so these are kind of lines wasted. But I'll go on anyway.

I'm going with the line that if my teenaged son has a baseball game on a Saturday night, the chances are fairly good that I will be there watching or coaching. That if I can't be there, I will trust in the coaches and others (including my teenaged son) to take concern for his and others' safety and sportsmanship, regardless of locale.

That wherever my son, or any of my teams play, I will look into how to get in & out of the area and if there are any safety concerns. If so, how can/will they be minimized. In nine years, six of which have been at a elite travel level, I have only come into problems in three parks. In those parks, no one was hurt, no physical battles started....because the adults & older kids managed to step in before things escalated.

I certainly won't be making up a variety of specious arguments to buttress our first (publicly questioned) rationale and manner in which a ballgame was forfeited. And then crying foul when I'm called out on my bullshit.

Nor will I try to amazingly enough toss the POTUS into an thread criticizing small minded parents and a game.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Here is every post I made in this thread before RR and I started going back and forth

Youll notice, there are 0 mentions of this being a bad neighborhood, 0 endorsements of Payton parents, and SEVERAL hypothetical suggestions and repeating my original question that has been twisted into some form or prejudice (because hey why not?)

Is there a neighborhood dangerous enough to avoid?

Just culling together some quick data from Chicago Homicide tracker using Cottage grove to the east, Wentworth ave to the west , 115th st to the south and 107th st to the north , there has only been 31 homicides since 2007. And this from the 2nd city cop blog today ( to be fair, not verified) ha wanna hear the best but its all hush hush. Two brooks students were robbed today right out front of the school on 111th. But its being kept out of the media. Sure its safe bring the family. Damn those alarmist Payton parents.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

That last part sounds like a cop's fantasy, Rogue

alright, give us the murders around Payton.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Maybe Roland Harper, I never trusted him.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Using roughly same search radius from the high school itself, 10 .

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

OK. 10=safe, 31=not safe. Got it.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest