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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 3:08 pm 
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I would posit that the data is somewhat flawed in that those are just homicides. There are far far far more shootings that happen that don't result in a death, but just because I'm not going to die doesn't mean I want to get shot either


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 3:15 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
OK. 10=safe, 31=not safe. Got it. :lol:
Id feel 3x better about my chances of not getting shot and killed living near Payton than I would around Brooks. :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 5:05 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
alright, give us the murders around Payton.


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 5:34 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Is there any neighborhood that is bad enough to refuse to go?



Yes there is. I'm not sure it applies here with Payton, but there is one somewhere in the US.

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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 5:42 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
alright, give us the murders around Payton.

Just west on Payton is a terrible area. Granted it isnt 111th, but I would tell you that weekly they have shootings, drugs busts, etc in what is considered a pretty small area.

While Cabrini High rises are gone the 4-5 story midrises remain and the kids that got to Payton arent lining there!

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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 5:51 pm 
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As I have said I am friendly with some of these families. I see one one of these kids one day and I ask him what he is doing for the summer? He says 'Nothing"

I ask if he thought about a summer job? he says 'Nah"

I then ask him if he wants to make $100 a day cleaning up a work site? His mom is listening very closely because this would be the first time the 15 year old ever worked for anything.

He says 'Sure"

So his Mom drops him off at my work site the next day.

I tell him he needs to vacuum the kitchen cabinets, then wipe them down, so there is no dust on them. I give him the vac, I attached the dust brush and show him how I want him to do this job.

I come back 15 mins later and he is doing exactly what I showed him to do with the vacuum brush, moving it back and forth over the cabinets. I look at him and wonder, "is this kid really this clueless?"

I said "Joe (not really his name)...did you turn on the vacumm?" He says "I didn't know you needed to turn it on!"....and this is the kid that is in the privledged school....welcome to Chicago. Daddy...Big time lawyer guy!

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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 1:00 am 
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As I stated in my first post, my stance on this issue changed as more information came forth. Race, makes headlines and gets readers and viewers, and thus too often blinds people or tricks them into pausing their thinking. Then again, there are times when people think they know far more than they really do.

My oldest graduated Payton '04, my youngest from Jones '12. I drive a KIA minivan. I know what its like to be a parent driving to events for my kids, particularly sports and Tae Kwon Do. Despite the privilege perception, and the monies raised in fund raising, or the success of the team, at Jones the money raised is shared among all the programs (I won't get into Payton because '04 was the first graduating class and CPS treated them like royalty). There aren't always buses to games or meets, which is why parents volunteer to take kids to the games and bring them home. It isn't uncommon to have to drive an hour extra just to provide door service. A ride board was set up to help share the load on parents and volunteers. The coaches at Jones know the importance of academics and the importance of communication, which is why they know that our kids will miss a practice or miss a game/meet because of an exam, or college boards, or a campus visit.

I don't know all of the details but from what I understand the game was either scheduled only 3 days prior to Saturday night or it was learned that there would not be a bus 3 days prior. That's on the coach to communicate that information.

A few more thoughts:
  • I've yet to read anybody claim that they wouldn't mind their 16 y.o. son traveling home from 111th & King Dr. at 9:30 on a Saturday night. I suppose its okay they show up at the door after midnight and after curfew.
  • Kids don't attend a Payton, or Jones, or Brooks looking to play D-1 basketball, baseball, or football. That doesn't mean they don't try to be competitive.
  • Its only funny to remember the time somebody busted out car windows when they aren't to your car. Trust me on this, I've had two of my cars set afire.
  • While I know you have to one day trust them to be on their own, as I did when I turned the oldest one loose on the streets of Manhattan at the age of 17. That doesn't mean you repeatedly indulge in practice runs where they get to run the streets at 15 and you go on with an "out of sight, out of mind" attitude.
  • While there are kids who do live near Payton or Jones, many others live elsewhere in Chicago. Both schools are extremely diverse. So if a black parent decides they can't drive their child and don't want them in Roseland on a Saturday night, is that racist or just common sense?

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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 2:04 am 
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When I was in high school St. Rita had a game being played while ATF agents shot and killed someone behind the left field fence.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998 ... nforcement

All types of bad stuff happened around Mt. Carmel when I was there.

I have yet seen a team refuse to go to either of those places to play.

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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 8:06 am 
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conns7901 wrote:
When I was in high school St. Rita had a game being played while ATF agents shot and killed someone behind the left field fence.


"When I was in high school. St. Rita, by the way. We had a game being played while ATF agents shot. and killed. Someone behind the left field fence. You see. He said something about the fine Jewish people. Great people, by the way. And so I ratted him out to the feds for selling weed. Don't do drugs, friends. Anyway. The agents came up to me after the game to thank me for my service. And I said no. I thank you for your service. Darrin, have you ever facilitated a successful sting operation? No. Of course you haven't. 3 and 1 the count on Viciedo here, when he homers it'll be his ninth."

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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 8:09 am 
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conns7901 wrote:
All types of bad stuff happened around Mt. Carmel when I was there.


There was one particular roughneck named Terry's Peeps...

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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 8:50 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
All types of bad stuff happened around Mt. Carmel when I was there.


There was one particular roughneck named Terry's Peeps...


In 98, that had to have been the brother of a Terry's Peeps.

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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 10:36 am 
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conns7901 wrote:
When I was in high school St. Rita had a game being played while ATF agents shot and killed someone behind the left field fence.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998 ... nforcement

All types of bad stuff happened around Mt. Carmel when I was there.

I have yet seen a team refuse to go to either of those places to play.


The former Quigley South campus. I remember the event because it also happened across the street from a crowded CTA bus terminal.

Rita and Carmel have their own buses to get their teams to games/events.

The Brooks games was a late schedule addition that didn't have school provided transportation.

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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 12:22 am 
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Payton, Brooks finally play ball in show of solidarity

By Colleen Kane Tribune reporter


Alberto Reyes looked across the well-kept field at Gwendolyn Brooks College Prep during pregame warm-up drills Saturday evening and declared it a beautiful place for a baseball game.

Two weeks after their originally scheduled game, players and coaches from Brooks and Walter Payton College Prep stretched across the baselines during pregame introductions in a show of solidarity in the Roseland neighborhood and prepared to play.

They hoped the game, which Payton won 11-2, would end a racially tinged controversy that has stretched from the North Side to the South Side after Payton didn't show up for the original April 27 contest, reportedly because Payton parents feared for their children's safety in Roseland.

“I think when the (Payton) players got here, they were stunned,” said Reyes, a Brooks junior first baseman. “They saw a field that looks beautiful. … There are really no hard feelings anymore. Just a simple game of baseball between us, and that's it.”

The controversy started when Payton coach William Wittleder told the Chicago Sun-Times that the original game was canceled because Payton parents didn't want their sons traveling to Roseland, which has been hit by shootings and other crimes in recent years. Reyes said he felt hurt “in my chest and my heart” because “they were basically saying our neighborhood isn't good enough for them.”

Payton Principal Tim Devine later disputed that report, saying the cancellation stemmed from “leadership issues within the baseball program.” Chicago Public Schools spokeswoman Kelley Quinn said the team didn't have bus transportation and parents only had three days notice about the game. Payton is on the Near North Side.

Wittleder declined Saturday to discuss what happened the day of the original game, saying his team has tried to stay away from the media reports and focus on baseball.

“We learn from what happened in the past, and we focus on right now,” Wittleder said. “The boys and myself have been through a lot of adversity, and I think they're still standing, and we're still standing.”

Brooks coach Bryan Street expressed support for Wittleder after reports of backlash against the coach from some Payton parents.

“You're always going to have people in your corner, and you're going to have people on the other side,” Wittleder said. “It's always been like that in high school sports.”

Anthony Beale, a Brooks assistant coach and 9th Ward alderman, said he thinks a lesson can be learned from the controversy.

“Hopefully it just opens people's eyes,” Beale said. “Sometimes ill feelings peek their heads up at the wrong time, and I think that was one of those times. I think it's a reminder: Don't stereotype, and let's get past perceptions of communities.”

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