I think that people did not get Goff's point. I can't believe that I am defending him. I think his point was that the Knicks would be a better team if you got the ball to Anthony and not Lin. That point has been proven. It does not mean that they would be a championship team. J.R. Smith cannot be a viable number 2 option. Look at how OKC's season tanked when they lost Westbrook. If the Heat lose Wade or he is ineffective they probably do not win either. I think that you can win with him as centerpiece but it is contingent upon who the other pieces are. Lebron James did not become the supreme winner until he played with better players. If you substitute Anthony for James on the Heat team that won last year they still win in my opinion.

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Tyson Chandler was dominated by Roy Hibberd enough said. No I am not related to him but it is stupid for a person that just finished 3rd in MVP voting to get criticized for his team losing in the second round. Chandler has made one all star team does not make him an All Star. That is mostly due to the lack of centers in the NBA. Indiana had three all stars (West Hibberd and George). When the Knicks were an eighth seed people criticized Anthony. I think it is unfair that Chandler will not take criticism nor will Stoudamire nor will Kidd nor will J.R. Smith but it Anthony's fault did you even watch the games to know what happened? I find it funny that some of the same people were saying that he was the problem last year also.

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Does not compute.

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Goff's point was not that Anthony is better than Lin unless Goff was attempting to make the most obvious point in the history of sports.

It was that you get the ball to Anthony and get out of his way because he is "Carmelo Mother effing Anthony". The Knicks were seeking a way to limit the usage of Carmelo because the way he has been used for his career didn't work. It wasn't that Lin was better. It was that the team had a better chance to win with the style they were playing. It's about style of play, not individual talent. Carmelo is more talented than all but a few players in the league. However, he doesn't win like they do. There is a reason for that. Goff seems to think it's a good idea to get the ball to Carmelo and let him do his thing. I don't see how you can look at his career so far and how his team plays and think that is the right way to build your team.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

He is not a year in year out All Star. When I think of All Star don't think of Tyson Chandler. Roy Hibbard made an All Star team also but he is roundly criticized. People don't think of him as an all star either when they think of All Stars. Roy Hibbard dominated Tyson Chandler in that series. Is Chandler being criticized for being thoroughly outplayed? When you think of All Stars typically it is the people who multiple appearances.

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Dirk won a ring with Chandler.

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I think that the point was proven that if you get the ball to him and let him do his thing the Knicks are a better team. How well did the point guard centric approach work for D'Antoni. The Knicks won 54 games this year. They did not lose to the Pacers because of Carmelo Anthony. This is their best team in a decade. They don't win 54 games without him. They are paying a guy 20 million a year to do nothing and their is not one person on this board that has even mentioned it. If you look at the talent of the Heat and the Knicks the Heat have better players. That is why the Heat will win. No is asking the question of whether Durant can lead a team to a championship. These are some of the same people that probably believed that OKC would be better without Westbrook. Basketball is a game in which players that you have to game plan for and Double team rule. Carmelo Anthony is one of those players.

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Yes he did. But he also won with a better supporting cast than this Knicks teams trots out. Jason Kidd did not score a point in nine games. I am glad you brought up Dirk. You were probably saying the same thing about him two years ago.

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They aren't a contender though. That is the point. Carmelo ball gets them to a certain level and that is the ceiling. It's an incremental but ultimately meaningless improvement. You even seem to realize this as you are constantly blaming other players for the failure of Carmelo Anthony. If your team is a contender by "Just get Carmelo the damn ball and let him work" why do the other players matter? Oh that's right, because "Just get Carmelo the damn ball and let him work" has been proven not to work.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I am not in the camp that believes you get him the ball and you win a championship. I don't believe that this philosophy has been successful for anyone that has one a championship. There are two separate arguments that some of you are making. "Get him the ball" will not work. Carmelo as your #1 option can work. The guy that he was brought to New York to play with has been a no show in each of the 3 playoffs that Anthony has participated in. These are two separate arguments. Kobe Bryant was the centerpiece of a team that barely made the playoffs. If you look at his history he wins when he plays with better players. Lebron James did not win until he ran to play with better players. Kevin Durant looked terrible when the second best player on his team was hurt. In fact look at OKC/Seattle's record during Durant's first couple of years. When he had better players his team was better. The get him the ball philosophy did not work for Michael Jordan either. Goff's point was that if you get him the ball the Knicks are a better team. This point was made during a time when a lot of people were saying that the ball needed to be in the hands of Jeremy Lin and not Carmelo Anthony. This is great example of revisionist history. He never said that the Knicks would win a championship by simply getting him the ball. They were too busy championing the cause of Lebron James to ever think that anyone else could win a championship.

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The bolded section is why his point was bad. The Knicks aren't a championship contender with "Just Get The Ball To Anthony". Why not try something different? It may work, but we know what doesn't work and that is what Goff was screaming for the Knicks to do.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Long Time Guy's spin of Goff's point sounds a lot less ridiculous than what Goff's point actually was


B and B should hire LTG as their PR guy

They spent the entirety of last year stating that the Heat were the inevitable champions. So how can "get him the effing ball" also make the Knicks a champion. Unless I am wrong only one team can be a champion. Without Anthony this Knicks team is a lottery team. They may have won 30 games. To win 54 is a lot better than "incrementally better". Their biggest problem is Stoudamire and the fact that he is owed 45 million over the next two years.

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You are getting way to technical and looking way too into this.

Here is the B and B and Goff thought process

Stars win. Carmello is a star. Lin is not. Give Carmello the ball and get out of the damn way because Stars win titles.

That they were also predicting the Heat means nothing. They contradict each other on a regular basis

I listened to Goff he did not say that the Knicks would win a championship if you simply gave Carmelo the ball. He said that they were a better team if he had the ball and not Lin. It was made at the height of Linsanity and there was a raging debate as to whether the Knicks offense was better with the Ball in Lin's hands and not Anthony. In fact the coach at the time D'Antony was helping to feed the beast by constantly championing Jeremy Lin. Once again revisionist history. Besides Miami OKC was the only other team considered to be contenders for the championship. The Knicks were never in the discussion.

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That's why it was a dumb point. The Knicks needed to be searching for a way they can win a championship. We knew it wasn't Anthony and we know right now it is not Anthony. I don't know how else I can say it.

I hope you are having a good time in Atlanta.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Are you familiar with the phrase "Hate to speculate" you like so many that post to this board should try it sometimes.

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What does that even mean?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I hate to speculate which is what you are doing I am not Jason Goff nor am I Anthony's relative which is what somebody else suggested earlier. Speculation appears to be the lifeblood of this board i.e potential show hosts. whose going to be hired and fired and also the identity of posters. I don't engage in this sort of crap because ultimately who cares about such things. I prefer to post when it is sports related. Thus the phrase "I hate to speculate".

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The entire sports radio business is based on speculation

Take that Jason Goff!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm back by not so popular demand. We are now quoting the musings and ramblings of the increasingly incoherent Terry Boers. Has this board no shame. No player is a champion until they are a champion. While it is easy to look at the best player and discuss why a team won't win a championship with said player rarely does anyone ever look at the second best player as the reason. Who's the Knicks second best player J.R. Smith it was supposed to be Amare Stoudamire. That is what Anthony signed up to play with. Who's the Heats second best Wade. Thunder Westbrook. Spurs Duncan at this point. Clippers Blake Griffin. Even the Pacers Roy Hibberd. Grizzlies Marc Gasol. All of these players are better than J.R. Smith. All have been all stars at some point in their careers. Why doesn't anyone ever discuss the supporting cast of the Knicks. The guy gets criticized unfairly in my opinion. That's all. Carmelo Anthony may never win a championship during his career but has he ever been on a team that was supposed to win the championship like Lebron James or Kobe Bryant for that matter. Those guys depended upon Hall of Fame players to win championships. That is why Lebron left Cleveland and Kobe demanded a trade prior to the acquisition of Gasol. You can't win a championship simply by handing the ball to Anthony but one should not confuse that with the stupid argument of you can't win because of or with Anthony. I wonder how many people said the same thing about Paul Pierce. It is funny how is image as a career loser was greatly enhanced because of Garnett and Allen. You win with great players and besides Anthony how many other great players do the Knicks have. Do they have any very good players even? That became better when they acquired Anthony. Anyone that doesn't believe so probably doesn't know much about basketball.

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It was a joke Jason.

Carmelo chose his destiny. He was only interested in the Knicks. Can't complain about your situation when you put yourself in it.

Unless of course he didn't know the Knicks were a terribly run organization.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I agree with that. That is why he is vilified. He forced his way out of Denver and he will have to own that for the rest of his career. Or at least until he wins a championship. In my opinion Stoudamire is the one that should be crucified. He is essentially a thief at this stage of his career.

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Welcome back Kid.

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The problem is that this thread was created because the idea for Carmelo was "get him the ball and get out of the way". Saying his team isn't that good or he doesn't have a superstar doesn't really make sense then.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Carmelo doesn't make others around him better and he doesn't have the talent of a Kobe. You can't have your best player only play hard when he feels like it.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

If the second best player is so important maybe we need to question the conventional wisdom that declares Michael Jordan "the best that ever was, the best that ever will be". Like Barkley once said, "Why does Michael get to make Scottie and Horace better and I have to make Manute Bol and Ron Anderson better?"

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

The second best player is important. Michael Jordan was the best player in the league for three to four years running. He did not win a championship until Scottie Pippen became a great player. If the second best player is not important then why did Lebron James conspire with Dwayne Wade. Why does the great Kobe Bryant attempt to recruit players i.e. Chris Paul/Dwight Howard. Why has the AAU like culture proliferated in the NBA. You don't see any of these players going out of their way to play with Kirk Hinrich. Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh are better than any second player on the Knicks. That is essentially my point. The guy has been in the playoffs every year in his career. Yet he gets criticized for not winning a championship. A lot of great players have not won championships. The whole "get him the ball and get out of the way" as I perceived it at the time was meant as a shot at the way the Knicks offense was constructed. At the time Jeremy Lin was dominating the ball. Goff suggested that the Knicks would be a better team not a championship team if they simply got Anthony the ball. That theory has been supported by the fact that the Knicks had a better record once they put the ball in Anthony's hands. If Goff suggested that they would be a championship team then he is a fool.

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You don't seem to get it. The theory is to "get the ball in Anthony's hands and get out of the way".

We are seeing how flawed that thinking is since even you are using the teammate excuse.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!