http://sports.yahoo.com/news/grant-hill ... --nba.html

Playing his last season for a coach who is not only around Hill's age, but probably less knowledgeable than he is about basic basketball is most likely not the way he wanted to go out.

Do you all think Hill would have been better than Pippen had the former's career not been derailed by injuries while in his prime? He sure seemed to be heading that way to me.

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You are Drunk. Lottery Selection is always early in playoffs, OJ chase was during finals.

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time to time??

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I wonder if Grant Hill still drinks Sprite?

Hill would not have been better than Pippen IMO. From an offensive standpoint I think he would have been, but when you look at the whole picture I think Pippen would have been the better player.

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Could not agree more.

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I agree that Pippen was the better defender, but once Hill recovered and left Orlando, he became a pretty good defensive player in his 30s. I remember him being put on the opposing team's best player when he was with the Suns.

I was looking at Hill's stats for his best years in the league, and they seem to be closer to someone like LeBron James than they are to Pippen. Take a look below. These are from Hill's first six years in the league, and James' last six years. James is the more prolific scorer, but they both flirt with triple doubles statistically.

Hill averaged nearly 26 points the year just before his surgery, when he was only 27 years old. I think it's likely that he could have averaged anywhere from 24-28 points for the next 3-4 years, along with his steady diet of 6+ assists and 7+ boards. He definitely wouldn't have won as many titles as Pippen did, but I think you can make a strong argument that he projected to be the better player.

Hill

Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
94-95 DET 70 69 38.3 0.477 0.148 0.732 1.8 4.6 6.4 5.0 1.8 0.9 2.89 2.90 19.9
95-96 DET 80 80 40.8 0.462 0.192 0.751 1.6 8.2 9.8 6.9 1.2 0.6 3.29 3.02 20.2
96-97 DET 80 80 39.3 0.496 0.303 0.711 1.5 7.5 9.0 7.3 1.8 0.6 3.24 2.32 21.4
97-98 DET 81 81 40.7 0.452 0.143 0.740 1.1 6.5 7.7 6.8 1.8 0.6 3.52 2.42 21.1
98-99 DET 50 50 37.0 0.479 0.000 0.752 1.3 5.8 7.1 6.0 1.6 0.5 3.68 2.28 21.1
99-00 DET 74 74 37.5 0.489 0.347 0.795 1.3 5.3 6.6 5.2 1.4 0.6 3.24 2.57 25.8

James

Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG

07-08 CLE 75 74 40.4 0.484 0.315 0.712 1.8 6.1 7.9 7.2 1.8 1.1 3.40 2.20 30.0
08-09 CLE 81 81 37.7 0.489 0.344 0.780 1.3 6.3 7.6 7.2 1.7 1.2 2.98 1.72 28.4
09-10 CLE 76 76 39.0 0.503 0.333 0.767 0.9 6.4 7.3 8.6 1.6 1.0 3.43 1.57 29.7
10-11 MIA 79 79 38.8 0.510 0.330 0.759 1.0 6.5 7.5 7.0 1.6 0.6 3.59 2.06 26.7
11-12 MIA 62 62 37.5 0.531 0.362 0.771 1.5 6.4 7.9 6.2 1.8 0.8 3.44 1.55 27.1
12-13 MIA 76 76 37.9 0.565 0.406 0.753 1.3 6.8 8.0 7.3 1.7 0.9 2.97 1.45 26.8

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Scottie was putting up similar numbers playing along side MJ. Obviously Hill never played with someone that good and defensively there is no comparison. Scottie is arguably the best perimeter defender in the history of the league and a top 5-10 defender of all time.

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Even though Pippen was the superior defender, I'd say Hill was the better player. He could do more, and he could be your best player while Pippen was clearly an outstanding "supporting" player.

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I think you are missing the bigger point. Pippen put up similar numbers along side of MJ. Hill put them up without a superstar along side.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
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I don't remember much of Hill during the early to mid 90s, but wasn't he regarded as the better ball handler of the two? If you ignore for a moment Pippen having to play with MJ, wouldn't Hill's skills place him above Pippen? When Pip played w/o MJ for those two years in the 90s, he topped out at 22 per game. Hill averaged nearly 26 before he even got to what is arguably the prime age for a basketball player: 28-32.

Outside of numbers, does anyone think Pippen could be the "man" when he was in his prime? My take is that, while the assists and rebound numbers are somewhat similar, Hill's skill set and ability made him a better candidate for a leading man.

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You're placing too much weight on a couple PPG. Pippen's stat lines are superior to Hill's with and without MJ. Then there were the things he did defensively that didn't show up on a stat sheet along with his versatility.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/268 ... iowkekvLYF

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As for numbers, I'll agree with "similar" but I disagree with Pippen's stats being "superior." The comparison is below.

Pippen guarded multiple positions, so there's no doubting his intangibles. I would agree Hill isn't in Pippen's league when it comes to defense, but it's not like he was Carlos Boozer either. As for versatility on offense, what could Pippen do that Hill couldn't do? They both were point forwards, and as far as I see it, Hill had better handles and a better first step to the rim.



Pippen's best years (age 25-32)

91-92 CHI 82 82 38.6 .506 .200 .760 2.3 5.4 7.7 7.0 1.9 1.1 3.09 3.00 21.0
92-93 CHI 81 81 38.6 .473 .237 .663 2.5 5.2 7.7 6.3 2.1 0.9 3.04 2.70 18.6
93-94 CHI 72 72 38.3 .491 .320 .660 2.4 6.3 8.7 5.6 2.9 0.8 3.22 3.20 22.0
94-95 CHI 79 79 38.2 .480 .345 .716 2.2 5.9 8.1 5.2 2.9 1.1 3.43 3.00 21.4
95-96 CHI 77 77 36.7 .463 .374 .679 2.0 4.5 6.4 5.9 1.7 0.7 2.69 2.60 19.4
96-97 CHI 82 82 37.7 .474 .368 .701 2.0 4.5 6.5 5.7 1.9 0.6 2.61 2.60 20.2
97-98 CHI 44 44 37.5 .447 .318 .777 1.2 4.0 5.2 5.8 1.8 1.0 2.48 2.60 19.1

Hill's best years (age 22- 27)

Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
94-95 DET 70 69 38.3 0.477 0.148 0.732 1.8 4.6 6.4 5.0 1.8 0.9 2.89 2.90 19.9
95-96 DET 80 80 40.8 0.462 0.192 0.751 1.6 8.2 9.8 6.9 1.2 0.6 3.29 3.02 20.2
96-97 DET 80 80 39.3 0.496 0.303 0.711 1.5 7.5 9.0 7.3 1.8 0.6 3.24 2.32 21.4
97-98 DET 81 81 40.7 0.452 0.143 0.740 1.1 6.5 7.7 6.8 1.8 0.6 3.52 2.42 21.1
98-99 DET 50 50 37.0 0.479 0.000 0.752 1.3 5.8 7.1 6.0 1.6 0.5 3.68 2.28 21.1
99-00 DET 74 74 37.5 0.489 0.347 0.795 1.3 5.3 6.6 5.2 1.4 0.6 3.24 2.57 25.8

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Offensively their numbers are similar. They both handled the ball a lot but Hill turned the ball over more. Defensively there really is no comparison in numbers or impact on the game. That isn't a knock on Hill it just illustrates how great of a defensive player Scottie was. Grant Hill was one of the few players Scottie had a hard time guarding though.

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Grant Hill also goes home to this.

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Can't go wrong with either, in my opinion.

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Jason Kidd retired today.

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-- source

He & Grant Hill future Basketball Hall of Famers? Discuss.

The best player of that draft outlasted them all.

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I believe so, unless Ray Lewis is on the same ballot. If it's the latter, then no.

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-- source

Hill will get in because of what he did in college. Kidd will get in because of what he did in the NBA.

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Well, Hill didn't do too bad in the NBA either, considering the circumstances.

7× NBA All-Star (1995–1998, 2000–2001, 2005)
All-NBA First Team (1997)
4× All-NBA Second Team (1996, 1998–2000)
Co-ROY (1994)

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That isn't quite HoF worthy though. I'm pretty sure Penny has similar numbers. Let's remember Dominique was not a first ballot guy. Let's also remember Hill never made it past the 2nd round.

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Yup. I didn't mean to imply that those achievements alone make him HOF worthy, just that they form part of the total package.

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Agreed. I'm still not sure why the NBA wouldn't get their own HoF.

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he was one of the best players to play on the bulls. rip

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Why should they? MLB doesn't have their own. NFL doesn't have their own. NHL doesn't have it's own. Do you know who has their own HoF? The WWE. Would you want to be in that company?

Not much to discuss SHARK. Both are no brainers.

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