Wasn't there a (thankfully) brief hue and cry about steroid testing going to really affect those poor latino players for some reason (e.g., they don't know any better, don't have any other way to make it onto a team)?

(clearly I don't include Braun in that)

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

A lot of people believed Braun

Bonds and Clemens are assholes so they get t worst


But you're right in general

I think the ball has much more to do with increased or decreased offense than anything the players take. There's a lot of evidence to suggest that.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Yes was just talking about good ol 1987 earlier today


Wade Biggs hit 24
Gwynn had 20

They used to juice the ball like once a decade

I agree completely.

_________________
Fire Phil Emery

Everyone takes them cuz they don't actually help.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

This response is not to either of you, regardless of the quotes above my post.

_________________
-- source

How many baseball players wear those dumbass ionized bracelets?

_________________
Fire Phil Emery

I've posted the link to this article before. The numbers are difficult to dispute.

http://steroids-and-baseball.com/

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

1987 and Happy Haitians:

http://books.google.com/books?id=rUbjng ... nd&f=false

Rawlings moved baseball production out of Haiti after 1987.

We've had guys hit 50 recently who were clearly on more than HGH. They just so happened to become great at baseball after the age of 30. The ball didn't stop them.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

_________________

I read that before when Joe Posnanski posted it. I had an inkling of the theory before, but I found the argument completely convincing. In fact, I find the steroids hypothesis completely implausible the more I think about it.

The distance that a baseball travels is a direct consequence of how much energy is transferred to the baseball (ignoring wind or other environmental stuff). How is energy transferred to the baseball?

(1) The pitcher throws the ball. The faster the pitch, the more energy is transferred.
(2) The batter hits the ball. (a) The faster the swing and (b) the heavier the bat, the more energy is transferred.
(3) Some energy is lost when the bat hits the ball, for various reasons. Think of the difference between hitting a superball and hitting a sock rolled in tape. The more energy is transferred, the faster the ball will travel.

#1 has remained pretty much constant over the years, with slight variations.
#2a is mostly a function of body mechanics, up to a certain weight. If you use a ten ounce bat, you won't swing the ten ounce bat appreciably quicker just because you are super strong. The mechanics of your swing drives the speed.
#2b is where steroids would matter the most. Your swing will stay mostly the same speed until the bat starts to get too heavy, then it will slow down along a slope as the bat gets heavier. If you are stronger, your swing will stay faster for heavier weights.

That being said, bat weights themselves didn't rise much during the steroids era. It could be that players were using too-heavy bats before, and now they could swing the same bats at a quicker speed. This is plausible. But the differences in speed would likely be rather small -- a few percent quicker at most, which means a few percent longer hits at most.

That leaves #3.

_________________
Fire Phil Emery

Did you watch baseball during that era? Are you saying what Glenallen Hill did to a ball had NOTHING to do with steroids? That's silly. A lot of guys murdered the baseball because they were sticking needles in their ass.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Basically, yes.

_________________
Fire Phil Emery

That's where you completely lose me with your theory.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Couldn't agree more. Well said.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

It's not just dangerousness, it's making PED use a requirement for work. Imagine at your job that cocaine usage is not only allowed, but encouraged in the hallways and those who do it are getting promotions based on results. You are all but forced to start using cocaine, even if you think it's too dangerous to use, or to fall behind others who are willing to do it. Now, maybe the cocaine isn't making them better at their job, but it certainly is doing something whether real or imagined. Of course, you could just quit your job and move onto a different industry, or you could just sit back and watch as other people leapfrog you and you get stuck in your position while also getting asked the question of "why aren't you taking cocaine?" all the time.

Allowing people to use PEDs is actually forcing them to use PEDs. Now, maybe it's a battle that can't ever be truly won, but at least a player who wants to be clean can just do his best and hope that the cheaters eventually get caught.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

But if it's not dangerous, it doesn't make any difference.

Does all that coffee help you keep up with the other young executives?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

It is dangerous though. All drugs have negative side effects. Some are worse than others. Now, there is some promise that HGH may be safe and that ten or twenty years from now people will take it like they do a baby aspirin but clearly we aren't there yet.
No, because I can't drive after taking it.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

So how do you explain Barry Bonds and Sosa turning into Giant sized 60 and 70 homerun hitters?


Nothing to do with PEDs? Or PED's didnt matter?


How bout Brady Anderson?


There are numerous cases of guys putting on 25 lbs on muscle in an off season and then doubling their career homerun high. That is PED's

I hope Adam Dunn is on that list. Shit, couldn't JR find someone to fix this for him?

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Hey Biggie, you still think your boy Bud doesn't want to nail Braun?

_________________
2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins

The comments above were correct about energy transfer being the key to the home runs. The ball and how fast it is pitched. The absorption of energy by the ball factor, bat speed and weight of bat. What was overlooked however is that a guy that is on PED's and adds all the extra muscle. No his PED use isn't immediately a factor. But if he can due to the muscle swing a heavier bat with the previous home run type bat speed there is an energy increase.

_________________
Elections have consequences.

You'd have to be a total ignoramous to not see what steroids did for Sosa. He was right here in Chicago his whole career. Anyone that didn't see it is a buffoon.

Until PEDs are found at GNC stores, MLB cannot allow them for obvious legal reasons. Best bet is to go through the motions of testing players. Covers them from a legal standpoint and the players can keep using. Everybody's happy except the handful of players who don't want to use them.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

I'll contend this was one of the best sigs ever on the board.


This info just makes Frank Thomas look all that much better. Same thing with guys like Dawson, Konerko, Maddux, etc.

_________________