Its not a waste of time. Its entertainment. Im not watching like an actual scout, but I like to familiarize myself with the players who will be playing in the NFL or NBA.

A lot of people use that angle to follow college sports.

Yeah, but you are watching it to see who wins and who loses, not who looks like they'll be good later.

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Both.

I watched like 5 NC state games the year Julian what's his name was there.

I would never watch a Stanford game just because, but I watched a few with Luck.

Baylor and Texas Tech had incredibly fun offenses to watch in each of those years. They also happened to have teams that got into the rankings. Baylor and KSU played on ABC in prime time LAST season without a single top pro prospect but with fun styles.

Johnny Football's pro prospects are generally not that good, yet the college football world was captivated by him.

Look at Oregon. None of those skill position players have been top prospects and they get all kinds of air time.

College football would survive if the pro game did not exist.

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but others would and have for a while. If Stanford is competitve they are an attractive team because they wear the white hat against teams like USC and Oregon.

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Johnny Football is absolutely a pro prospect.


I never said it couldnt survive without the pro's. I said people watch with an eye on the pro's, which is clearly true and not even close to as unique as you labeled.

Never said they didnt.

That is not ALL or even Most of the people who watch college football though.

Well then let me get this straight, your contention is that most people watching college football are watching it with an eye on pro potential of the players. Correct me if I'm wrong. If not, I'd say you are flat out wrong. Everyone wants to watch good players and players who play well for their team. I don't think they are thinking how much they would love an individual to do well in the hopes that he may play in the NFL. It's completely tangential

The QB from Michigan and ND are both incredibly exciting players. Neither is given a great shot at the next level at least as a QB, yet everyone is watching those games to watch them play.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
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Take a little review of your beloved draft guides on that. He won't be a top pick.

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And men have lost their reason.

No, my contention is that a good percentage of people are watching with an eye on the nfl and wouldnt watch as much as they did without the nfl.



Maybe its 35-40% but its not unique

I dont love draft guides.

He's a pro prospect and will play in the NFL.

I don't think it's that high of a %. I like the pros 100x more than college, but when I watch college games I'm generally not trying to figure out a guy's NFL future. I would have no idea what to look for anyways. I thought Vince Young was gonna be the best qb of all time after that Rose Bowl.

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That is way too high. I think most viewers are somewhat interested in the pro prospects but very few people are sitting at home watching someone because they may be good in a different game a few years later. Most of the big name pro prospects are incredibly interesting college players.

It just sounds painful. Who is going to watch a full game of Fresno State because the QB has a chance to be a first rounder?

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And a good portion of the interest is pro prospects.



Why do you have to watch a full game?

I watched a few series here and there when David Carr was there. If he wasnt there, I wouldnt have watched any.

I watch all ND games.


Let me ask you this, if Andrew Luck and RG3 played against each other that year, how would the ratings be? And how much of it would be people thinking about the future?


College basketball, Id say its an even larger percentage.

You just seem to have entrenched yourself in the camp that how players will play in 3 years is more important than how they look now. It's very Bernsteinish.
Does that really need an explanation? If you are so interested in scouting the pro prospects why not watch the full game? I'll watch about 20 minutes of soccer once every few months. It still doesn't interest me.
It would have been huge because of how dynamic both of them were as college players. No one disagrees that the potential of how well they will play as pros isn't considered but the game going on that day matters much more than what may happen 3 years later.

rogers park Bernstein

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What? No, not even close.

I value pro's over college sports. That's not unique to Bernstein.



Yes, because you set up the strawman of watching an entire Fresno St. game for one prospect.

I can watch 10 of David Carr's offensive series over a year and get a sense of what he is or might be later. It doesnt require sitting down and watching an entire game. Especially in football when he's not on the field half the time.



It would have been huge because of how dynamic both of them were as college players. No one disagrees that the potential of how well they will play as pros isn't considered but the game going on that day matters much more than what may happen 3 years later.[/quote]
What are you talking about?

How does it matter more? What happens on that day matters that day. What happens in three years matters in three years.


Doesnt change the fact that the ratings would have been through the roof and a good amount of people would be watching that as a preview of the next class of NFL QB's


Your just defaulting to your "college sports is awesome" argument here. Which is weird because I like college sports.

It's not a strawman. It's amazing how poorly most people understand what a strawman is. For this next season, Fresno State and San Diego State both have potential first round draft picks at QB. If your desire to scout pro prospects is as big as you say it is, then you should be more willing to watch those teams than most of the other teams in the country. It just shows where your true priorities really are.

The good teams happen to have high draft picks, and you'll watch the good teams, and you'll mostly ignore teams like that. Watching a few series of a team doesn't really show interest.

Um, that is my point. Getting confused now...
Oh, is that the same one where I state that while I prefer college sports for personal reasons, the NFL is better?

Once again, you do another "You just hate Jay Cutler"-like argument. Time to abort from discussion.

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No, its absolutely a strawman.

You acted like I said "People watch entire Fresno State games to scout one guy"

Definition of a strawman

It's amazing a person of your intelligence could not only NOT understand what a strawman is, but go as far to criticize other people's interpretations of the OBVIOUS strawman you posted.




Oh ok. I guess I watched Fresno because I found it uninteresting. Funny, I didnt watch any other year but the one where Carr was there. I must have just been looking for uninteresting things to watch back then.


Right and I never said anything to the contrary

Thats what happens when you assign opinions to people.


Are you trying to deny that you passionately defend college sports every chance you get on this board?

This Jay Cutler thing has become your cop out. If anyone disagrees with you, they're just being irrational.

You are sticking up for NCAA sports and attempting to say that it stands on its own merit and there is not that much NFL scouting viewing going on

Is it a leap to call that a pro college argument?

No, of course its not. But you played the Jay Cutler victim card, so were done.

No, I didn't. I already explained the rationale for the question.
I only bring the "You just hate Cutler" thing when someone tries to explain my opinions away because of some hatred/love I have of something. "college sports is awesome" and "You just hate Jay Cutler" are the same lazy arguments to me. Citing a perceived bias doesn't really change whether or not my thoughts are correct or incorrect.

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There is no rationale.

You responded as if I said watching a whole game was neccessary. I didnt say that or imply it.

Strawman.

I only bring the "You just hate Cutler" thing when someone tries to explain my opinions away because of some hatred/love I have of something. "college sports is awesome" and "You just hate Jay Cutler" are the same lazy arguments to me. Citing a perceived bias doesn't really change whether or not my thoughts are correct or incorrect.[/quote]
Not lazy arguments. Its just your history.

When Elmhurst Steve posts, you know your getting some contrived unfunny racism

When Panther posts you know you're getting some....Panther-ish stuff

When Curious Hair posts, you know you're getting some David Foster Wallace references

When you post, I know Im dealing with a guy who loves college sports and has argued in their favor at length.

And of course the bias (percieved as you may see it) can effect whether people take your thoughts seriously or if you have an agenda.


I watch college football for both the actual games and for NFL prospects. I dont think im unique in that. That is all Im saying.

Maybe the percentages I put up are a little high. I dont know. Its what I believe.

No. I'm saying I reject your position that watching a few series means you watch games to scout pro prospects. That doesn't fit with a strawman. A strawman would be pointing out that you didn't watch Player X that year or that you don't watch every prospect. I'm flat out rejecting your criteria because I feel it doesn't accurately show enough interest to be evidence that people like you watch college football with the purpose of scouting players. To put it another way, you still spend most of your college football viewing watching teams and not players as you admitted with how you watch more Notre Dame games than you do scouting prospects.
It is a lazy argument. Nothing is gained, it really doesn't mean anything, and it doesn't do anything to invalidate the thoughts. It just sounds good and it makes it easy to think the other person is wrong.

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I watch college football because Brent Musberger lusts over girls in the stands.

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Arguing a point the opposition never made = Strawman


Here it is.



No one said anything about a full game or that you watch every team. Extreme Strawman

.

I'll remember that he next time you label me a Kenny hater or Sox hater or Saber guy

That was my point! My point was that you aren't going to watch a full game because of a pro prospect. That is not a strawman. It's not close to a strawman. It's me completely rejecting that you watching a couple series of Fresno State matters. I don't know why you are so hung up on this. It's definitely a difference of opinion and not a strawman.
As you should.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It is a strawman.

When you argue against something that's never been said, that is a strawman and that is exactly what you did.

Anyone could later say, "well that's my point, that doesnt happen" which means no strawman could ever exist.


I never said or indicated watching an entire Fresno St. game was what I meant
Bears fans dont all love to talk about Bear Weather

You and Bernstein ignore those facts and keep arguing anyway

It's a misrepresentation of the opponents opinion and that's exactly what you did


Ok. So everyone else reaps what they sow, but you get a clean slate?

Cool

This thread is morphing into the Tiger Woods thread.

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I am refuting your position by stating that it is not sufficient in proving interest besides a superficial switch for a small time. A straw man does not refute the initial position, only the new superficially similar but unequivalent position. I could just as easily have stated that watching a few series and then going to watch a different team because of non-scouting reasons does not mean you are truly watching. That's why I'm saying you are misusing the concept of a strawman. There is a clear connection I am making between the time spent watching a specific game and it is illustrated by how much you are willing to watch a game. If I said I was a big New York Jets fan because I have followed them for a year, and someone said that you aren't really a big New York Jets fan unless you've followed them for 10 years, it wouldn't be a strawman.
That is my point. You claim to watch college football to scout players, and you won't even watch more than half an hour to scout one of the biggest prospects around.
No. Call me out for lazy arguments when I make them too.

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Ok.


It IS amazing how little people understand Strawmen

RPB is Russia, Rick is the US and I am Afghanistan in the 1980s

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

That should help.
I'm not even attacking position Y. That is why it doesn't fit.

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