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veganfan21

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Nas

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:40 pm

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FavreFan wrote:

Nas wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

Nas wrote:

Stockton is the best pure PG in NBA history and clearly the best defensive. Isiah was a great scoring guard in an undersized backcourt. Big O was REALLY a SG.

Saying Stockton was a better defender than GP is worse than any basketball thought I could ever concoct.

Of PG's? Yes. He was too undersized to guard SG. Who will break his steals record?

Getting steals is not necessarily a good indicator of defensive ability. Look at Iverson. There's a reason GP shut down Stockton in the playoffs but Stockton was incapable of returning the favor.

Stockton was older and 5" shorter. I know you didn't see Stockton play when he was at the peak of his game but any AI comparison is laughable. He wasn't a reckless gambler.

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Nas

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:50 pm

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In nearly two decades of running the point for Utah, Stockton averaged a double-double with 13.1 ppg and 10.5 assists. Think how impressive those career averages are considering he played sparingly his first few seasons and was limited to around 30 minutes per game his last five or six seasons. Stockton was one of the most efficient players of all time with his 52 percent career field goal percentage, 38.4 percent three-point percentage and 82.6 percent free throw percentage.

On the offensive end, nobody was a better passer. Stockton is the all-time leader in assists with 15,806 – that’s over 5,000 more than Magic’s total of 10,141. In the 1989-’90 season, he averaged 14.5 assists, which was the highest single season total in league history. Stockton was a 10-time all-star, two-time Olympic gold medalist, two-time All NBA first team and was voted one of the 50 Greatest NBA Players of all time in 1997.

As great of a player Magic was, he wasn’t a good defender like Stockton was. Stockton is the game’s all-time leader in steals and was voted on the All Defensive second team six times. Whether you thought he was dirty or not, he was aggressive on the defensive end and didn’t back down from anybody, even though he was just 6-1 and 175 pounds.The one knock on Stockton was he never won a championship. Isiah won two and Magic won five, but that doesn’t mean they could do what Stockton did year after year. Stockton made the playoffs in all of his 19 seasons and reached the finals twice only to lose both times to the MJ’s Bulls – which arguably was the best team of all time.

Stockton’s longevity and consistency is something that no other point guard can match. He was not 6-9, didn’t have much athletic ability or the same caliber supporting casts as Magic and Isiah, but he found a way to get it done. Nobody could do and will ever do what John Stockton accomplished.

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FavreFan

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:50 pm

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72560
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis

I'm just saying steals are a terrible barometer of defensive prowess.

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Nas

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:54 pm

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FavreFan wrote:

I'm just saying steals are a terrible barometer of defensive prowess.

I agree it doesn't always mean a lot.

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Seacrest

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:55 pm

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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:45 pm
Posts: 38622
Location: Lovetron
pizza_Place: Malnati's

The Original Kid Cairo wrote:

Point guards only...

1. Magic
2. Kidd
3. Stockton
4. Isiah
5. Payton
6. Nash
7. Wilkens
8. Frazier
9. Parker
10. Maravich

What about Cousy?

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The Original Kid Cairo

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:59 pm

Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 39560
Location: Barfagloggle, Indiana
pizza_Place: Pizza Hut

Seacrest wrote:

The Original Kid Cairo wrote:

Point guards only...

1. Magic
2. Kidd
3. Stockton
4. Isiah
5. Payton
6. Nash
7. Wilkens
8. Frazier
9. Parker
10. Maravich

What about Cousy?

I think the game changed so much from when Cousy played, that he would have been left behind if he had played in the 70s or beyond. He was great for his time, but not for all time.

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FavreFan

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:05 am

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72560
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis

The Original Kid Cairo wrote:

Point guards only...

1. Magic
2. Kidd
3. Stockton
4. Isiah
5. Payton
6. Nash
7. Wilkens
8. Frazier
9. Parker
10. Maravich

Nice. I'll have to look closer at this tomorrow but just at a glance I'd probably have Archibald in there over Parker. Chris Paul will definitely make my list.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
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good dolphin

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:59 am

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm
Posts: 82846

vegan, take it from an old pro, these hand job threads are a curse in disguise.

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Walt Williams Neck

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:46 am

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:43 pm
Posts: 18494
Location: end of lonely street
pizza_Place: Obbies

FavreFan wrote:

The Original Kid Cairo wrote:

Point guards only...

1. Magic
2. Kidd
3. Stockton
4. Isiah
5. Payton
6. Nash
7. Wilkens
8. Frazier
9. Parker
10. Maravich

Nice. I'll have to look closer at this tomorrow but just at a glance I'd probably have Archibald in there over Parker. Chris Paul will definitely make my list.

It amazes me that you can rank someone that you have never seen play :shock:

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

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Bagels

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:48 am

Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:10 pm
Posts: 32129
pizza_Place: Milano's

he's no vegetable lasagna

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Tall Midget

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:07 am

1000 CLUB

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pizza_Place: Zaffiro's

Has it been determined if he's a fan of vegans, a vegan and a fan (of sports, presumably), or both?

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Chus

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:09 am

Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 34795
pizza_Place: Al's Pizza

Bagels wrote:

he's no vegetable lasagna

That's my apple juice.

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Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

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Hank Scorpio

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:50 am

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:16 am
Posts: 20082
pizza_Place: Aurelios

I have a crazy friend who says it's wrong to eat meat. Is he crazy?

No, just ignorant. You see your crazy friend never heard of the 'Food Chain'.

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Chus

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:01 am

Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 34795
pizza_Place: Al's Pizza

Hank Scorpio wrote:

I have a crazy friend who says it's wrong to eat meat. Is he crazy?

No, just ignorant. You see your crazy friend never heard of the 'Food Chain'.

When I grow up, I'm going to Bovine University!

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

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KDdidit

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:36 am

Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:28 am
Posts: 24453
Location: Boofoo Zoo
pizza_Place: Chuck E Cheese

Bagels wrote:

he's no vegetable lasagna

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Apologist

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:05 am

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:23 pm
Posts: 7415
Location: Liquor in the front, Poker in the rear
pizza_Place: Lou's, Pequod's

Keeping Score wrote:

Nas wrote:

I hope those aren't Vegan's thoughts because I like him. However anyone that ranks Ewing ahead of Hakeem or doesn't have Stockton as the 2nd best PG in NBA history shouldn't be allowed to talk basketball.

Walt is the one who has Ewing ranked FAR above Hakeem.

Walt is pretty big on Stockton, but vegan - maybe not so much. I think Vegan has him in the Top 25 but I'll certainly let him talk for himself.

Walt's basketball card should be rescinded for that thought

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312player

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:37 am

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:15 am
Posts: 27591
pizza_Place: nick n vito's

Hakeem is the greatest center of all time, Ewing is not even top 10.
Veganfan is probably the best sports poster here.

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The Original Kid Cairo wrote:

Laurence Holmes is a fucking weirdo, a nerd in denial, and a wannabe. Not a very good radio host either.

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The Original Kid Cairo

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:38 am

Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 39560
Location: Barfagloggle, Indiana
pizza_Place: Pizza Hut

312player wrote:

Hakeem is the greatest center of all time, Ewing is not even top 10.

I like you and respect you a lot, Player. But both of those sentences are just wrong.

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Terry's Peeps

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:40 am

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 68612
pizza_Place: Lina's Pizza

The Original Kid Cairo wrote:

312player wrote:

Hakeem is the greatest center of all time, Ewing is not even top 10.

I like you and respect you a lot, Player. But both of those sentences are just wrong.

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The Original Kid Cairo

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:41 am

Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 39560
Location: Barfagloggle, Indiana
pizza_Place: Pizza Hut

Clearly, the only solution to this dispute is a 6-man tag.

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Don Tiny

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:44 am

Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 11:10 am
Posts: 42094
Location: Rock Ridge (splendid!)
pizza_Place: Charlie Fox's / Paisano's

The Original Kid Cairo wrote:

Clearly, the only solution to this dispute is a 6-man tag.

> insert 'DOMA' joke here

> insert 'insert' joke here

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312player

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:45 am

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:15 am
Posts: 27591
pizza_Place: nick n vito's

U don't think hakeem is goat big?

I should have said Ewing is not top 8.

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The Original Kid Cairo wrote:

Laurence Holmes is a fucking weirdo, a nerd in denial, and a wannabe. Not a very good radio host either.

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The Original Kid Cairo

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:47 am

Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 39560
Location: Barfagloggle, Indiana
pizza_Place: Pizza Hut

312player wrote:

U don't think hakeem is goat big?

Top 4. As much as I love Dream, I cannot put him ahead of Wilt, Jabbar, or Russell.

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Terry's Peeps

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:49 am

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 68612
pizza_Place: Lina's Pizza

The Original Kid Cairo wrote:

Clearly, the only solution to this dispute is a 6-man tag.

_________________

The Hawk wrote:

There is not a damned thing wrong with people who are bull shitters.

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The Original Kid Cairo

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:50 am

Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 39560
Location: Barfagloggle, Indiana
pizza_Place: Pizza Hut

Me and Teddy share the same birthday. You're extremely pleased.

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Terry's Peeps

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:53 am

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 68612
pizza_Place: Lina's Pizza

The Original Kid Cairo wrote:

Me and Teddy share the same birthday. You're extremely pleased.

That's not all you share...

_________________

The Hawk wrote:

There is not a damned thing wrong with people who are bull shitters.

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Walt Williams Neck

Post subject: Re: veganfan21

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:36 pm

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:43 pm
Posts: 18494
Location: end of lonely street
pizza_Place: Obbies

Apologist wrote:

Keeping Score wrote:

Nas wrote:

Walt is the one who has Ewing ranked FAR above Hakeem.

Walt is pretty big on Stockton, but vegan - maybe not so much. I think Vegan has him in the Top 25 but I'll certainly let him talk for himself.

Walt's basketball card should be rescinded for that thought

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