this season has really sucked. i dunno how cub fans could follow the team year after year when they have sucked like they have. i have zero interest in watching the white sox right now.

and yeah i know the bears have sucked, but when they did i didnt really expect them to win, nor care obviously, and they only play 16 times a year. i couldnt take 6 months of suckage year after year

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[quote="Frank Coztansa"]this season has really sucked. i dunno how cub fans could follow the team year after year when they have sucked like they have. i have zero interest in watching the white sox right now.

and yeah i know the bears have sucked, but when they did i didnt really expect them to win, nor care obviously, and they only play 16 times a year. i couldnt take 6 months of suckage year after year[/quote]

I realize the Cubs history isn't exactly replete with triumphs, but it's not as if the Sox didn't have "6 months of suckage year after year" for long stretches of their history either.
You survived it. You still follow the Sox. Astounding.
You've endured many of the same things Cubs fans have endured. You have one HUGE difference than the Cubs fans, but that has come quite recently. In the grand scheme of things, the Cubs and Sox histories are quite similar.

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Stupidity irritates the crap outta me... and yes, I irritate myself far too often.

Love this:

Contreras: Start me or trade me in 2008

By Mark Gonzales
Tribune staff reporter

August 2, 2007, 11:24 PM CDT

Jose Contreras has accepted his demotion to the bullpen.

But if he starts next spring as a reliever, the White Sox's struggling right-hander would rather play elsewhere.

"If they don't want me as a starter next year, I want to be out of here," Contreras said Thursday. "I want to be a starter next year, definitely. I feel good and maybe for the remainder of the year I'll be in the bullpen. But I fully expect to start next year, I'll work out hard during the off-season and be ready for next year.

"But in case they don't want me as a starter, I guess they're going to have to talk because I want to be a starter and not be anything but a starter next year."

Contreras has a lot to prove. He's 9-23 since the 2006 All-Star break and 1-10 in his last 12 starts, which prompted his demotion to the bullpen.

Contreras has accepted the assignment because of his recent struggles. But he has two months to regain his effectiveness and the faith of the Sox coaching staff.

That could be a difficult task because general manager Ken Williams fortified the Sox's young pitching depth last winter when he re-acquired left-hander Gio Gonzalez, who leads the Southern League with 148 strikeouts and is third in ERA (2.94) for Double-A Birmingham.

In addition, Nick Masset was sent to Triple-A Charlotte last month to become a starter and pitched four innings of one-run ball Wednesday against Toledo.

Gavin Floyd, Lance Broadway and Charlie Haeger also have a shot at joining the rotation in 2008.

Contreras will be paid $20 million total for 2008 and 2009, making it difficult for the Sox to trade him unless he pitches well or another team claims him on waivers.

Manager Ozzie Guillen, choosing his words carefully, suggested Contreras pitch better to regain his spot.

"If Jose starts throwing the ball the way we think he can, then he will be a starter," Guillen said. "If not, unfortunately some people have to make moves we don't want to do.

"We don't want to make this move. We've been thinking for a while, we've spent like 1 1/2 years to make this move. We talked about doing this, and we keep waiting and waiting and waiting."

Jose. They would love to trade you. NOBODY WANTS YOU YOU!!!

i know the sox only have one banner to hang recently, but what i meant was that the sox are generally competetive, and still in a playoff race til late in the year. this is the first time in ages that the sox have been done at the AS break and the cubs have something to play for.

bears.

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After today's lackluster Z performance and subsequent 9th inning shitfest, all's I can say is...

Bears.

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Stupidity irritates the crap outta me... and yes, I irritate myself far too often.

He should have Murphy's Tool of the Week for these comments. Talk about being out of touch with reality. He sucks, and nobody wants him. That's it.

Jose is in now...12th inning. Ozzie must want to go home.

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"YOU GOTTA BE BLEEPING ME"

He pitched well today. Uribe fucked it up.

Um.....no

he still sux.

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No difference vs Seattle on Friday. He stinks, and I'm extremely pissed that Guillen (I wonder if Williams has his hands in this because of Contreras' contract) is probably keeping this guy in the rotation over seeing Gavin Floyd for the final month and half. We already know Contreras is bad this year. Shut him down, or at best, keep him in the bullpen. I suspect Floyd isn't much better, but maybe giving him every 5th start from here on out will help him...probably not, but we have nothing to lose by doing just that.

2nd inning, KC has 4 runs already. i know the sox are a last place team and all, but you'd think they would at least try to win a few games here and there. and that will not happen with contrares on the mound.

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Farmio was actually on the spot with some good analysis on the radio. 2005 - Contreras has a great year and never really went to a different arm angle.
2006 - Wins 13 games, starts going to the side arm more.
2007 - Relies on side arm and look at the results.....

The only time the Sox put together a nice string of wins was when Contreras was in the bullpen. And he actually did okay when they called him into a couple of games in relief. So what do they do? Let him start again.

Even if the season is over, they need to get him out of the rotation.

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Eliot Spencer: "I don't like any sport where you can't score on defense!"

He is terrible. Eat the salary and send him packing. Maybe the Marlins will take him.

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"YOU GOTTA BE BLEEPING ME"

Did Contreras find Julio Franco's Jesus Juice to wake him back up? Don't look know but he might the 5th starter next year.

Shhhhhhh...
Allow me to qoute myself.

The way Javier, Buehrle, Jose & Floyd have pitched of late makes the inevitable Garland trade easier to take. Danks should be better in '08 & if Floyd fails you still got Gio.

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“Mmmm. Move over, eggs. Bacon just got a new best friend - fudge.”

I still think it's unlikely that Contreras is moved without the White Sox picking up at least 1/2 of his remaining salary. Since they are unlikely to do that, given their history, Garland is the guy on the block.

The Denver Post speculated a few weeks back about the possibility of acquiring Garland in the off-season, but I don't think the White Sox are necessarily going to be looking for salary in return as much as more young bodies ready to crack the majors.

**

Here's a piece of that speculation:

A potential starting point to serious discussions: former closer Brian Fuentes for Garland. Fuentes is a two-time all-star who absolutely mauls left-handed hitters. He's in line to double his $3.5 million salary in his final year of arbitration, a figure that could prove difficult to justify if he remains a setup man for Manny Corpas.

Fuentes as a starting point? They would have to include either Tavarez or Tulowitzki in any conversation if I was KW.

I don't think the White Sox would want to that Fuentes because he's making 3.5 million, and could double that in arbitration, or at least get a good raise which would be a lot of money to pay for a setup guy.

I think they are going to find a team where they can land 2 major league ready prospects (at least one pitcher, maybe both pitchers) so they can have payroll flexability to get a CF as well.

Yeah but isnt bullpen help the scarcest commodity in MLB? I know they have a reputation for being tight with money, and that sure is alot for a setup guy, but if they had as good of a pen as the Cubs this year they could have been at least .500.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You KNOW they have a reputation for being tight with money??


Rank Team 2007 Payroll
1 Yankees $195,229,045
2 Red Sox $143,526,214
3 Mets $117,915,819
4 White Sox $109,680,167
5 Angels $109,251,333
6 Dodgers $108,704,524
7 Mariners $106,516,833
8 Cubs $99,937,000
9 Tigers $95,180,369
10 Orioles $95,107,807
11 Giants $90,469,056
12 Cardinals $90,286,823
13 Braves $89,492,685
14 Phillies $89,368,214 ,
15 Astros $87,759,500
16 A's $79,938,369
17 Blue Jays $79,925,600
18 Brewers $71,986,500
19 Twins $71,439,500
20 Reds $69,154,980
21 Rangers $68,818,675
22 Royals $67,366,500
23 Indians $61,673,267
24 Padres $58,235,567
25 Rockies $54,424,000
26 D'backs $52,067,546
27 Pirates $38,604,500
28 Nationals $37,347,500
29 Marlins $30,507,000
30 Devil Rays $24,124,200

.500 gets you jack and shit in the AL central. and, the cubs pen sucked, for the most part, in the first half of the season.

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I don't think the White Sox are tight with money, but they have a lot of money already in next year's budget. They need a veteran setup man, but if they can't trade for a reasonably priced one, I think they will just bring in as much competition as possible.

If you look at the bullpen, Jenks, MacDougle/Thorton (both have contracts) are going to be here. You'd figure that one or two young arms would make the team as well so I don't really see a major overhaul happening here.

Since we know Buerhle's not going anywhere, is it safe to assume one or more of the other 3 veteran pitchers will be gone before next season?
If so, who goes? The last 10 starts for each are as follows:

Jon Garland (2-6) 3.48 ERA
Javier Vazquez (6-2) 4.13 ERA
Jose Contreras (5-2) 3.38 ERA

I know not many people are fans of his, but I've always liked Vazquez and I hope they hang on to him. Probably can't get much for Contreras but I think that'll be the way to go. A starting rotation with Buerhle, Vazquez and Garland should be solid enough to compete with a decent bullpen and a lineup that can hit better than .220 collectively. I didn't mention a 4 or 5 starter because I have no faith in the young White Sox arms to be anything more than average at best based on past performances.

Even though it's becoming an annual event, it seems like the strongest speculation is that Garland will be traded. Last night was a strong outing for him to wrap up the year with though, as Gonzalez reported there were a few scouts in attendance. Though it wasagainst the Royals.

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It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame.

http://www.TheCommittedIndian.com/

I'd have no problem with Garland going based on this fact alone: Record against the Royals and Tigers (Tigers used to suck of course) 29-12 with a 3.77 ERA and against everybody else 63-69 with a 4.62 ERA.

Wow, GREAT stat Mike. I never realized his victories were so heavily skewed.

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It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a goddamn shame.

http://www.TheCommittedIndian.com/

I think we're likely to see a rotation with:

1) Buerhle
2) Vazquez
3) Contreras
4) Floyd
5) Denks

- 4 and 5 will get competition from other minor league talent like Gio Gonzaloez, Nick Masset, Lance Broadway, etc.