Do Ex Sox players matter?

Brick · **Posted:** Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:28 am

bigfan wrote:

When Sandberg was in line for a managerial promotion, I heard nothing but crap from Sox fans about the loveable Cubs and how foolish it was to make a guy the manager because he was a Cub all time great. Disregarding the fact the guy had served his time in the minors, was a guy who wanted the job, was willing to do whatever was asked of him for the job.

Who said that? Not only would it be stupid to say given that the last two Sox managers were former players, but Sveum was also an unproven product and there was no real reason to believe that Sandberg wouldn't be just as good.

This is not how I remember it. Many Sox fans wondered why Dale Sveum was a better choice than Sandberg. There really never was a good answer to it either.

When Robin retires after the season, the Sox should go after Sandberg.

Terry's Peeps · **Posted:** Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:41 am

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

bigfan wrote:

When Sandberg was in line for a managerial promotion, I heard nothing but crap from Sox fans about the loveable Cubs and how foolish it was to make a guy the manager because he was a Cub all time great. Disregarding the fact the guy had served his time in the minors, was a guy who wanted the job, was willing to do whatever was asked of him for the job.

Who said that? Not only would it be stupid to say given that the last two Sox managers were former players, but Sveum was also an unproven product and there was no real reason to believe that Sandberg wouldn't be just as good.

This is not how I remember it. Many Sox fans wondered why Dale Sveum was a better choice than Sandberg. There really never was a good answer to it either.

When Robin retires after the season, the Sox should go after Sandberg.

NO!

EVERY SOX FAN WAS AGAINST SANDBERG AND LOVED THE VENTURA HIRING!!

Tall Midget · **Posted:** Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:51 am

Elmhurst Steve wrote:

Do current Sox players matter??

Do house painters matter??

Well, I guess Hitler did, so you've got that going for you.

good dolphin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm **Posts:** 82260

Why not just link the thread about Ventura being hired. I know there was at least one Sox fan against the hire.

I don't mind the old guys hanging around as ambassadors. They should not be given decision making duties.

Hatchetman · **Posted:** Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:42 am

All these charges of insularity are without merit. Remember they had Mansoo Lee as a bullpen catcher. Brought him all the way from Korea.

Curious Hair · **Posted:** Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:51 pm

I don't remember Sox fans being over the moon about Ventura, but plenty of them did tell Cubs fans that Sandberg didn't deserve to be manager. SHARK was hammer(head?)ing that point pretty hard, and I think a few other people were too.

bigfan · **Posted:** Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:55 pm

Curious Hair wrote:

I don't remember Sox fans being over the moon about Ventura, but plenty of them did tell Cubs fans that Sandberg didn't deserve to be manager. SHARK was hammer(head?)ing that point pretty hard, and I think a few other people were too.

I agree, never said Sox fans were all gaga over the Ventura move, but then became very silent.

Fact is Sandberg deserved to be hired. The fact they might not have liked him as a manager is fine with me.

Sandberg is a total hothead these days and I could see many GM's not wanting that.

Curious Hair · **Posted:** Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:03 pm

I wonder what prompted that. Was he just really angry about being made to live in Peoria and Des Moines?

Rod · **Posted:** Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:05 pm

bigfan wrote:

Curious Hair wrote:

I don't remember Sox fans being over the moon about Ventura, but plenty of them did tell Cubs fans that Sandberg didn't deserve to be manager. SHARK was hammer(head?)ing that point pretty hard, and I think a few other people were too.

I agree, never said Sox fans were all gaga over the Ventura move, but then became very silent.

Fact is Sandberg deserved to be hired. The fact they might not have liked him as a manager is fine with me.

Sandberg is a total hothead these days and I could see many GM's not wanting that.

Sandberg is not a "Theo guy". When you are conning a fanbase it's not good to have the potential for divided loyalty among the fans you are conning.

Hatchetman · **Posted:** Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:15 pm

Sandberg is a total hardass. All the players would hate him and try to undermine him.

Kirkwood · **Posted:** Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:20 pm

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Sandberg is not a "Theo guy". When you are conning a fanbase it's not good to have the potential for divided loyalty among the fans you are conning.

I don't understand why you insist Cubs fans are getting conned. Epstoyer have been upfront about throwing baseball seasons away.

Rod · **Posted:** Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:30 pm

Kirkwood wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Sandberg is not a "Theo guy". When you are conning a fanbase it's not good to have the potential for divided loyalty among the fans you are conning.

I don't understand why you insist Cubs fans are getting conned. Epstoyer have been upfront about throwing baseball seasons away.

The con comes in getting people to believe this is "the right way" with some guaranteed future success on the horizon.

Curious Hair · **Posted:** Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:33 pm

I have no doubt that building a minor league pipeline is the right way, but building it doesn't guarantee success, and you can't even guarantee that you'll build it. MacPhail heeeey F-A-I-L bonk bonk wheeeew honk-honk came over to build the Cubs in the Twins' image, and somehow the Cubs got less disciplined in free agency.

Gloopan Kuratz · **Posted:** Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:40 pm

It's one thing to have the old guys wandering around the ball park. It's quite another to have them actually run the team.

Frank Coztansa · **Posted:** Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:00 pm

bigfan wrote:

Then Robin is named manager of the Sox out of complete nowhere, even a surprise to him.

This issue then died?

No. There is like a7 or 8 page thread in this very section when Robin was hired. A few people said they like it, a few people said they didn't, most people (myself included) were so utterly shocked that they didn't know what to say.

Are you going to be this obsessed with the White Sox when the Cubs are good again? Sheesh...

Peoria Matt · **Posted:** Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:01 pm

Curious Hair wrote:

I wonder what prompted that. Was he just really angry about being made to live in Peoria and Des Moines?

Yes

Rod · **Posted:** Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:02 pm

Curious Hair wrote:

I have no doubt that building a minor league pipeline is the right way, but building it doesn't guarantee success, and you can't even guarantee that you'll build it. MacPhail heeeey F-A-I-L bonk bonk wheeeew honk-honk came over to build the Cubs in the Twins' image, and somehow the Cubs got less disciplined in free agency.

It's just not that easy. Theo will likely never have a run like McDowell-Fernandez-Ventura-Thomas, and that team never won anything beyond a division title.

bigfan · **Posted:** Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:08 pm

Frank Coztansa wrote:

bigfan wrote:

Then Robin is named manager of the Sox out of complete nowhere, even a surprise to him.

This issue then died?

No. There is like a7 or 8 page thread in this very section when Robin was hired. A few people said they like it, a few people said they didn't, most people (myself included) were so utterly shocked that they didn't know what to say.

Are you going to be this obsessed with the White Sox when the Cubs are good again? Sheesh...

Frank working the obsessed angle, thats something new.

312player · **Posted:** Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:09 pm

Hatchetman wrote:

Sandberg is a total hardass. All the players would hate him and try to undermine him.

He's going to begreat in Philly. Cubs should have hired him.

Frank Coztansa · **Posted:** Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:11 pm

Not working the obsessed angle so much as I am working the "bigfan is completely and totally wrong yet again" angle. To be honest, neither are that hard to work.

Frank Coztansa wrote:

bigfan wrote:

Then Robin is named manager of the Sox out of complete nowhere, even a surprise to him.

This issue then died?

No. There is like a7 or 8 page thread in this very section when Robin was hired.

I stand corrected, a 9 page thread; viewtopic.php?f=33&t=62981

Here are the first 3 replies;

Frank Coztansa wrote:

Just heard it on ESPN1000

what the fuck?!

Terry's Peeps wrote:

Holy shit.

This gonna be bad.

sjboyd0137 wrote:

O....K....Fuck...Um...The Hell?

About6 or 7 replies in, Dr Ken mentions Sandberg.

Frank Coztansa wrote:

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:

I don't mean this in a smart-ass way.

But, it's ironic that Sox fans thought Ryne Sandberg was a meatball Cubs pick.

But Sandberg was a legit candidate. I don't think anybody outside of Jerry and Kenny knew Ventura was even an option for this.

Kenny is the bigger problem with the last couple seasons anyway.

You are almost as good at trolling as Elmhurst Steve is, bigfan. Almost.

Gloopan Kuratz · **Posted:** Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:44 pm

Well, Ozzie and da Coach worked.

Denis Savard and Bill Cartwright did not.

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Curious Hair wrote:

I have no doubt that building a minor league pipeline is the right way, but building it doesn't guarantee success, and you can't even guarantee that you'll build it. MacPhail heeeey F-A-I-L bonk bonk wheeeew honk-honk came over to build the Cubs in the Twins' image, and somehow the Cubs got less disciplined in free agency.

It's just not that easy. Theo will likely never have a run like McDowell-Fernandez-Ventura-Thomas, and that team never won anything beyond a division title.

Right.

And Cub fans believe its the best way to maximize the potential. I see nothing close to a guarentee.

For the first time since I was 4, the Cubs are putting a premium on development. How could I not be for that?

good dolphin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm **Posts:** 82260

I see this entire thread as a well deserved, but passive aggressive shot at Rick.

Rod · **Posted:** Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:52 pm

rogers park bryan wrote:

And Cub fans believe its the best way to maximize the potential. I see nothing close to a guarentee.

That may be right or wrong. It's the best way to maximize revenues. It's cheaper to develop your own players if you can do it, that's for sure.

But Ricketts has guaranteed a World Series. I actually heard him say it. And the media is clearly guaranteeing success.

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

And Cub fans believe its the best way to maximize the potential. I see nothing close to a guarentee.

That may be right or wrong. It's the best way to maximize revenues. It's cheaper to develop your own players if you can do it, that's for sure.

I think it only stands to reason that its better for sustained success.

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

But Ricketts has guaranteed a World Series. I actually heard him say it. And the media is clearly guaranteeing success.

I dont like Ricketts. Never have.

The media has an agenda

Rod · **Posted:** Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:57 pm

rogers park bryan wrote:

The media has an agenda

It sure seems like it, but why should the media have an agenda to promote the Cubs? It doesn't strike me as objective. It comes off as rooting. Like when Tom Skilling puts out the most optimistic weather forecast possible for a summer weekend. And then it rains.

Curious Hair · **Posted:** Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:58 pm

I always knew Skilling was a sun homer.

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

The media has an agenda

It sure seems like it, but why should the media have an agenda to promote the Cubs? It doesn't strike me as objective. It comes off as rooting. Like when Tom Skilling puts out the most optimistic weather forecast possible for a summer weekend. And then it rains.

Yeah, I dont know why. I just know the media is not to be taken seriously with that stuff. Especially predictions.

good dolphin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm **Posts:** 82260

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

The media has an agenda

It sure seems like it, but why should the media have an agenda to promote the Cubs? It doesn't strike me as objective. It comes off as rooting. Like when Tom Skilling puts out the most optimistic weather forecast possible for a summer weekend. And then it rains.

The Tribune still seems to have vestiges of when it and the Cubs were under the same ownership but still insisted that they were unbiased in their baseball coverage

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