Rick, the perception (at least from my group of sports watching friends and family) is that the NFL is sleazy and college athletics is not. Long arguments have ensued about the cleanliness of college sports versus the dirtiness of the NFL. There's a ton of people out there that really believe that. I think that's why Dan's always yapping about it.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

The NFL does sleazy things, but IMO, it's not close to the level of sleaziness in NCAA.

For one, the NCAA is profiting off of kids, while restricting their ability to make money in the free market. That alone, trumps just about anything else. It's worse, when they put the kid's likeness in video games, and swear it isn't them. Or allow you to search "James White" on the NCAA store and have a #20 Badgers jersey come up.

And then there is recruiting and donors, which is about as sleazy as it gets.



I'm not suggesting the NFL is free from criticism. But in my opinion, the NCAA is a lot worse.

The NFL doesn't greatly benefit from the free talent development pipeline?

It does, of course. I don't believe I said it didn't.

It being an actual league with some actual semblance of balanced competition is a big one. And it not being an idiotic system of players pretending to be "students" when really they're football players first and foremost. And yes, the higher level of competition.

Essentially, it's just better in every single way. College sports should simply be disbanded, IMO. If they were merely worthless, that'd be one thing, but they're much worse than worthless.

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The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

If you don't hold institutions of higher education to a higher moral standard than sports leagues, you're a fucking retard. It's just that simple, Rick.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

The NFL does that too. RGIII was just fined for wearing the wrong shoe company logo on a practice shirt. They have salary limits, draft pay scales, limits on what types of products they are allowed to represent.

The major difference is the way that players are paid. I agree with you that the NCAA is wrong for those examples you have but is that really as bad as the NFL selling fake science, tricking parents into unsupported safety precautions, abusing cities on stadium deals, fighting against the "free market" in New Jersey, pressuring a news reporting agency to drop out of a piece that will be unfavorable to them?

I mean, just think about what the major issues with the NCAA are. Most of them come down to most players being slightly underpaid. I doubt Ed O'Bannon would be getting rich off of the NCAA if they were giving him some of the profits off his likeness, and he's one of the more notable players. I doubt that some backup point guard at Iowa is going to see anything more than a few hundred dollars after college. That doesn't mean they don't deserve it.

What is sleazy about that? Paying them under the table? See your first paragraph. How can you complain about the NCAA restricting their ability to make money in the free market and then complain that players are being paid in a true free market?

The NCAA has issues no doubt. They need to allow for more compensation for players. Though, in reality, most players aren't going to see a major increase in money especially as you point out many of them get stuff under the table.

Listen, I love the NFL. I actually think it's better than college football though I enjoy college football more.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

So why is the NCAA sleazier? The NFL implicitly endorses the NCAA way of doing business. I see no difference between the two.

what, Rick, am I on ignore?

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

You're listing bad things the NFL does, as if I don't understand they do bad things. I get that. But not paying the kids trumps everything. And then cheating to pay some, and not others, is the definition of sleazy.


But yes, the major difference is how the players are paid. That's it. NCAA kids are profited off of, and don't receive free market compensation for it. NFL players do. It's a private business, so not allowing RG3 to wear certain clothing when it would affect their business deals with Nike isn't sleazy. Paying SOME kids under the table, is sleazy.

Why do I have to choose one or the other? Why can't I hold everyone to a high moral standard and judge them accordingly when they blatantly violate that standard? You have portrayed yourself previously as a champion of equality going so far as to advocate for a massive changing in land rights for more fairness, but when it comes to the NFL you are willing to compromise your moral standards?

Yeah, I guess I'm the retard though. At least I'm not a hypocrite though.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The NFL has an investigation unit including former FBI agents and private detectives. They know what is going on with these guys.

It seems apparent to me that, at the very least, there is below the table, organized pot distribution in the league. Hurd knew he had buyers and I doubt he was buying for street distribution. We saw that in other cases as well. I assume each team has a connection in the locker room that is backed by more nefarious forces.

On another note, I have noticed the increase in pages of threads since you returned.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

A large majority of players are compensated above market value. A small minority are underpaid, and an extremely small minority are grossly underpaid.

I don't think that trumps everything. How much do you think a backup TE at Wisconsin should be paid? Personally, I think they should all get somewhere between $1,000 to $2,000 a month above the other compensation they receive. I don't think that trumps the NFL literally selling fake science to children about how to play football safely and the other things I mentioned.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't know what you wanted me to respond to. Your friends think that the NFL is sleazier than college. Many think the opposite.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Agreed 100%. You may have been the one to point it out before, but how did the Patriots know to move so quickly in releasing Hernandez? They knew what was coming.
I'm one of the few regulars who isn't spending his whole time in the "Members Only" section. I like being with the regular folk.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't know how much he should make.


I don't know the specifics of the football safety thing, so I can't respond.

The NFL taking advantages of cities couldn't bother me less. The city governments must be bad at negotiating deals.

The RG3 thing is simple... it's a private business. They can do that. It's not even sleazy, it just makes good business sense.

The concussion issues are real. Pulling ESPN out of the story is bad. And from what I can tell, the NFL doesn't take enough care of their players after retirement.



Still not as bad as the NCAA profiting off of kids putting their lives on the line. Using their likeness to make more money, while denying it and selling player's jerseys with their number. Oh, and recruiting/donors. It's just my opinion. You can continue to argue with my opinion, but you haven't laid out anything that would shift my thinking.

This answer is just inconvenient for you.
As someone who is so sure of his opinion on the sleaziness of the NFL vs. college you may want to read about it.
So are the college players. Why don't college players negotiate better deals?
The NFL is a non for profit.
You don't need to tell me that you've chosen a side and are sticking to it no matter what.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

1) I don't know how to answer what a backup tight end would make. Apologies.
2) College players can't negotiate better deals because they can't have a deal. They don't get contracts because they don't make money, and can't make money because of the rules. That's kind of my entire point.
3) The NFL is non for profit, but they aren't a charity. They make money. Being a NFP doesn't mean you can't ensure your business is successful. I don't understand your point.
4) I'm not sticking to it no matter what. I'm just saying you haven't given me a shred of a reason to reconsider my stance. You're the one who was curious why people think the NCAA is more sleazy, so I'm telling you why I think that.

I'd say a majority of football fans if asked would state that the NFL is sleazier than the NCAA. You disagree?

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

I like college football.

Probably my 3rd favorite behind MLB and NFL

I'm asking what YOU think a backup TE at Wisconsin should make. It's an opinion. The thing is that you know the number would be very low and the whole idea that the NCAA not paying players trumping anything the NFL has ever done is pretty weak. I'll answer it for you. They'd likely get/deserve about $1,000 a month + the compensation they currently get. For the record, this would put them significantly higher than most Triple A baseball players in terms of total compensation.
College players are free to negotiate any deal they want. The thing is that the colleges say "Take it or leave it". The NFL/teams say the same thing to municipalities.
You called the NFL a business. They aren't supposed to operate as a for profit business. Now, we both know they do.
I wasn't curious why people think the NCAA is more sleazy. I was saying that is wrong in my opinion.

I have given you a shred of a reason to reconsider. You refuse to even look into topics you admit you are ignorant of. That isn't something I can control if you choose not to.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I think it would be the opposite but I wouldn't really argue either side.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I will allow you to have that opinion.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

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2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins

1-2) They should also be able to sign autographs, get endorsements, etc as well. Even if it's $100 a month, they should get paid. They don't. Hence the issue. The main issue.
3) You don't understand their NFP status. They aren't a charity. They have a special tax exemption that literally names them (that you could argue they don't deserve). That doesn't mean they shouldn't be operating for profit.
4) I don't even know enough about the safety thing to google it. I literally have no idea what you are talking about.


All in all, like always, you've strayed very far from the main point.

Oh, and merchandise and sponsorship (Nike) are taxable:

Only because of the preponderence of blindly-ignorant fans, not because of anything else.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Mission of a public university:

Purpose
To advance the well-being of the people of our state and the global community through the creation and dissemination of knowledge.

Core Values
•Pursue knowledge for its own sake.
•Ignite in our students a lifelong love of learning.
•Produce discoveries that make the world a better place.
•Celebrate and learn from our diversity.
•Open the world to our students.

Mission Statement of NFL Team:

Make as much money as legally possible.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Let's say it was $100 a month. Does that really trump anything the NFL does? The injustice of a player not receiving $1,200 a year doing something he chose to do definitely trumps the NFL pushing fake science and putting children at risk to keep the game strong?
Thank you for getting to this point. Now explain why the NCAA can't do the same? The same justification works for the NCAA in not paying players.
You must be pretty bad at using Google. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=nfl+safe+tackling

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The NCAA can do the same. It's just sleazy that they don't pay players.