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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:11 am 
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Of course, after Pappy tells us Tiger isn't doing that well anymore, he almost breaks a record with a 63.

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That Tiger woods will never amount to anything, I predict <ring>

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Tiger will probably win by 5 shots, and Monday, Mike will tell us how great Tiger is.

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Close Chus. I happened to tune in today, and North and Fred were talking all golf. Mike actually had the balls to say, "Last week, I was ripping him, saying he hasn't won a major this year, and what does he do? He goes out and wins one." Mike says this matter of factly, like Tiger heard that the Great Mike North was disappointed him, and so Tiger went out and tried to live up to Pappy's expectations. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Perfect Example
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:16 am 
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TeeLander wrote:
Mike once again dazzled us with his JAG BAG segment, when he decided Tiger Woods was a JAG BAG because he has not "done that well lately" and he might not catch The Golden Bear and his 19 PGA's championship.


18 Majors.


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 Post subject: Re: Perfect Example
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:20 am 
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W_Z wrote:
TeeLander wrote:
Mike once again dazzled us with his JAG BAG segment, when he decided Tiger Woods was a JAG BAG because he has not "done that well lately" and he might not catch The Golden Bear and his 19 PGA's championship.


18 Majors.


I wouldnt be surprised if teelander was just quoting North there, Im sure North had no idea how many it was

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:23 am 
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Tiger will probably win 30 by the time he's done. I think Jack was the oldest guy to win a major. I think he was 45 when he won the Masters in 1986. I'll bet Tiger wins one when he's 50.


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FavreFan86 wrote:
W_Z wrote:
TeeLander wrote:
Mike once again dazzled us with his JAG BAG segment, when he decided Tiger Woods was a JAG BAG because he has not "done that well lately" and he might not catch The Golden Bear and his 19 PGA's championship.


18 Majors.


I wouldnt be surprised if teelander was just quoting North there, Im sure North had no idea how many it was


yeah that's true. i'd believe that...mike north is a moron.


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Beardown wrote:
Tiger will probably win 30 by the time he's done. I think Jack was the oldest guy to win a major. I think he was 45 when he won the Masters in 1986. I'll bet Tiger wins one when he's 50.


Although, I think Tiger could win number 19, and in his acceptance of the prize/trophy/green jacket, turn into the camera and say "I'm done;" and walk away from the game. While passion, determination, and the will to win drives Tiger, I think once he's past Jack, with no more goals or targets to overcome? He may just go and do something else.

Like roll around in the millions and millions of dollars he's worth.


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MUScholar21 wrote:
Close Chus. I happened to tune in today, and North and Fred were talking all golf. Mike actually had the balls to say, "Last week, I was ripping him, saying he hasn't won a major this year, and what does he do? He goes out and wins one." Mike says this matter of factly, like Tiger heard that the Great Mike North was disappointed him, and so Tiger went out and tried to live up to Pappy's expectations. :roll:


North is not the only performance enhancer Tiger has used, IMO.

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No. Not Tiger. He won't quit until he knows he can't win.

I really don't think Tiger loves golf. The only thing he loves is winning. He'll want to win as many majors as he has in him. The end for him will be around 53 I predict. That's when he won't be able to win any more.

He won't be like Jack or Arnold who actually love golf and just hang around and play in tournaments they can't win. They loved the adoration at the end more then anything. There will be no senior tour for Tiger either. He won't want to win those tournaments.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:46 pm 
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Mr. Reason wrote:
MUScholar21 wrote:
Close Chus. I happened to tune in today, and North and Fred were talking all golf. Mike actually had the balls to say, "Last week, I was ripping him, saying he hasn't won a major this year, and what does he do? He goes out and wins one." Mike says this matter of factly, like Tiger heard that the Great Mike North was disappointed him, and so Tiger went out and tried to live up to Pappy's expectations. :roll:


North is not the only performance enhancer Tiger has used, IMO.


Not again with the Tiger and athlete's 'little helper' backbiting again. He(Tiger) was better at golf at 12 than all of us here, and better than most of the prima donna PGA players that have ever lived when he was 22. Talent, desire and dedication has trumped most of the limp wristed players on tour now for almost 10 yrs, and now since most of those 'gentlemen' can't beat him on the course they start the whispering campaign like here. Is he bigger? Yes. Does he seem to have more endurance? Yes. Better hand/eye coordination? Seemingly, yes. But he was the best in the world 8-9 yrs ago at one weight, and now that he is a full fledged adult, he is equally dominant.

Gary Player is a bitter old bastard looking for a little more time in the spotlight at anyone's expense. So what does he do? Question a star's desire, work ethic or committment to his craft, no. Instead he pulls out the "enhancer" card and become golf's version of Curt Shilling. (Or M. North) He didn't say Tiger, but too many North types, or just those that can't handle the pressure of the weekend are awfully damn quick to try and connect those 'alleged' dots.

Face it, golfers aren't generally athletes, but Tiger is, with a Stanford degree, the ability to handle pressure and with a presence that frightens most PGA members, especially on the weekends. Simple isn't it.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:27 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Mr. Reason wrote:
MUScholar21 wrote:
Close Chus. I happened to tune in today, and North and Fred were talking all golf. Mike actually had the balls to say, "Last week, I was ripping him, saying he hasn't won a major this year, and what does he do? He goes out and wins one." Mike says this matter of factly, like Tiger heard that the Great Mike North was disappointed him, and so Tiger went out and tried to live up to Pappy's expectations. :roll:


North is not the only performance enhancer Tiger has used, IMO.


Not again with the Tiger and athlete's 'little helper' backbiting again. He(Tiger) was better at golf at 12 than all of us here, and better than most of the prima donna PGA players that have ever lived when he was 22. Talent, desire and dedication has trumped most of the limp wristed players on tour now for almost 10 yrs, and now since most of those 'gentlemen' can't beat him on the course they start the whispering campaign like here. Is he bigger? Yes. Does he seem to have more endurance? Yes. Better hand/eye coordination? Seemingly, yes. But he was the best in the world 8-9 yrs ago at one weight, and now that he is a full fledged adult, he is equally dominant.

Gary Player is a bitter old bastard looking for a little more time in the spotlight at anyone's expense. So what does he do? Question a star's desire, work ethic or committment to his craft, no. Instead he pulls out the "enhancer" card and become golf's version of Curt Shilling. (Or M. North) He didn't say Tiger, but too many North types, or just those that can't handle the pressure of the weekend are awfully damn quick to try and connect those 'alleged' dots.

Face it, golfers aren't generally athletes, but Tiger is, with a Stanford degree, the ability to handle pressure and with a presence that frightens most PGA members, especially on the weekends. Simple isn't it.


Regular Reader, sounds like you think I said that only because Tiger is black? Is that true? If it is, then I question your objectivity and frankly your judgement in general. I have been watching golf for over thirty years and just as in baseball, I trust my eyes. I have thought this long before Player wiped the drool off his chin and decided to give his opinion.
Tiger is not the only player I suspect of using enhancers. In the early 90s it was beta blockers. They supposedly allowed the player to maintain his focus while hitting a shot. Nick Price was the most recognized user when he was winning in the early 90s.
The first player I suspected of using body enhancers was David Duval in the late 90s. Are you familiar with him? He went from a pudgy, out of shape, marginal player to overtaking Tiger for the number one player in the world in the span of a year or so. Duval's body changed completely and I took heat from my buddies for suggesting he had help back then.
Tiger looks different than he did only a few years ago. That's just me making an observation based on what I see. It's a level playing field, though, since the PGA does not test for anything. I am aware of Tiger's dedication and the fact that he is the most dominant golfer since Nicklaus, with or without help. That doesn't change my opinion that I believe he needed some help to go from "Reggie Miller skinny" to "defensive back" ripped. Does it help him win tournaments? Probably no more than it does Bonds to hit homeruns. You make the call. Unfortunately, I don't know what's real anymore in any sport and that is sad.
If you can't handle a dissenting opinion without pulling out the race card, then that's your problem, not mine. I only know what I see. And to lump me in with North is very knee-jerk on your part and frankly, a bit disappointing.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:33 pm 
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Good point Regular Reader. It's funny. When you look at these golfers there all privileged gentlemen. Just happy to make their money at playing golf. Nobody has that killer instinct like Tiger. I don't expect them to be as talented but none of them have the desire like Tiger. Or so it seems to me.

And why can't these ass holes get in shape? (I don't buy your theory Reason. You're just used to seeing slugs play so it shocks you when somebody is in shape.) Shit. At the very least they all can do that. Why is Tiger the only one in great shape? That's pathetic.

You'd think that more would come along that are just as fierce as Tiger. But you don't see it. I think Tiger introduced this game to a whole bunch of new people from all backrounds. We'll see better players in the coming years. There is no doubt in my mind.


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Reason, I read his post twice and never got anything even close to him implying you said that because Tiger is black. Am I missing something?


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Does the race card make that hand a full house?


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hawkeye wrote:
Reason, I read his post twice and never got anything even close to him implying you said that because Tiger is black. Am I missing something?


Read it again. Maybe the third time is a charm.
When he brings up "North Types" in response to my one line post, that's the only logical conclusion I can come to. We are all aware of Mr. Reader's opinion of Mike North. I was accused of being a part of a whispering campaign. Why would he accuse me of that? If I am wrong, I will gladly apologeye to Mr. Reader. But I don't think that's the case.

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Mr. Reason wrote:
hawkeye wrote:
Reason, I read his post twice and never got anything even close to him implying you said that because Tiger is black. Am I missing something?


Read it again. Maybe the third time is a charm.
When he brings up "North Types" in response to my one line post, that's the only logical conclusion I can come to. We are all aware of Mr. Reader's opinion of Mike North. I was accused of being a part of a whispering campaign. Why would he accuse me of that? If I am wrong, I will gladly apologeye to Mr. Reader. But I don't think that's the case.


He can obviously speak for himself but I just took that as bitching about North and fat lazy golfers who use that as an excuse for Tiger wiping the floor with them all the time. Alright I'm out of this, I don't even watch enough golf to be involved in this discussion.


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Mr. Reason wrote:
Regular Reader, sounds like you think I said that only because Tiger is black? Is that true? If it is, then I question your objectivity and frankly your judgement in general. I have been watching golf for over thirty years and just as in baseball, I trust my eyes. I have thought this long before Player wiped the drool off his chin and decided to give his opinion.
Tiger is not the only player I suspect of using enhancers. In the early 90s it was beta blockers. They supposedly allowed the player to maintain his focus while hitting a shot. Nick Price was the most recognized user when he was winning in the early 90s.
The first player I suspected of using body enhancers was David Duval in the late 90s. Are you familiar with him? He went from a pudgy, out of shape, marginal player to overtaking Tiger for the number one player in the world in the span of a year or so. Duval's body changed completely and I took heat from my buddies for suggesting he had help back then.
Tiger looks different than he did only a few years ago. That's just me making an observation based on what I see. It's a level playing field, though, since the PGA does not test for anything. I am aware of Tiger's dedication and the fact that he is the most dominant golfer since Nicklaus, with or without help. That doesn't change my opinion that I believe he needed some help to go from "Reggie Miller skinny" to "defensive back" ripped. Does it help him win tournaments? Probably no more than it does Bonds to hit homeruns. You make the call. Unfortunately, I don't know what's real anymore in any sport and that is sad.
If you can't handle a dissenting opinion without pulling out the race card, then that's your problem, not mine. I only know what I see. And to lump me in with North is very knee-jerk on your part and frankly, a bit disappointing.


I never made mention the first about race. As to how I handle differing opinions, I simply try not to claim that others are wrongfully playing the 'race card', but maybe Mike North does. I just found it funny that when a young golfer came in and dominated from his first year, that so many tried to have something, anything negative stick to hurt him, and now it comes to enhancers (in a 'sport' previously dominated by non athletes). It's equally funny to be accused about pulling the race card, when actually I am really pulling athletic, class and age cards. (Race is coincidental, remember he isn't Black, he's Cablinasian, and he defends that 'race' well enough w/out my help)

Of course Tiger's critics have always seemingly claimed that it isn't a racial attack, but face it, on some level it is, but still more of a by product of the fact that he is a legitimate athlete and intense sportsman dominating a sport that glorifies the country club/ancient elite to which he does not naturally belong. I like Tiger for shattering stereotypes as much as I've enjoyed John Daly, or the tales of Arnie Palmer, the regular everyday guy on the golf course. It's not mainly race that interests me here, its that he has been head and shoulders above the rest, a myth buster, and more interesting than the Evans Scholars who make up most of the tour, and whose best days ended at a party in Chambana, Ann Arbor or Durham.

But then you go and claim legitimacy for your position by citing David Duval?? The same David Duval that hasn't really had a long term term focus, or ability to finish? The same Duval, who by your own admission went from being 'marginal' or 'out of shape/pudgy' to chiseled and in contention for best player in the world status in one(1) year??? Not great at every level. Not an acknowledged prodigy. Not a 'natural' athlete, or a bright Stanford grad tutored by a disciplinarian from toddler days???

Of course he doesn't look the same as he did in '97 or 2002, he was what 21, 26 unmarried and of a sole focus. Who does look the same? Cal Ripken, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron and Joe DiMaggio all seemed to grow quite a bit from their early years in the game. Hell so did even Nicklaus. Remember, the 'Golden Bear' nickname wasn't originally meant as a pure compliment. He was Duval-esque as you may say...

It is natural for any athlete to bulk up over his 20's, but Tiger almost solely seems to get the Bonds treatment, though he only looks 20-25 lbs heavier, and he was as much a natural wonder and student of the game now as then. But then again, my question to you is: besides Tiger and Duval, who else do you suspect???? I've never really heard Player say it, why not finish it for him?

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You're right. People can change naturally and by working out. Look at Jordan from his rookie year and then Jordan in the early 90's. Huge difference. You can lift weights and get stronger. I think that's been lossed in the steroid era.


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Before we get to far afield here, it simply comes down to this for me. The kid was an outsider, an underdog. He was untapped potential in a sport dominated unfortunately by Fuzzy Zoeller types or those pining for the days of Walter Hagan :shock: , or Bobby Jones. The kid won and was one helluva story for a decidedly different reason. Now however, he still wins big, and wins in the same dominant way of the old Celtics, Packers, Jordan's Bulls or the Yankees. Sometimes you just have to appreciate greatness.

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That's just it though. He didn't dominate on Sunday. Hell, there were a couple puts the other guys could have made to win. Makeable puts. They didn't. So when people say he has no competition it's bull shit. He's won a few majors where it was there for others to take.

Tiger has lost some majors that he could have taken. But over all he wins more becasue he cares more. He wants it more. His desire wins him more tournaments then his talent. Being in shape is part of desire.

I don't know why these pro golfers don't get in shape like him. They make enough money. They have nothing to do in the off season but work out. They have the weeks before majors if they don't play the lessor tourney's. Tiger is the only one that choses to be in shape. Screw these other guys for not trying.


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Beardown wrote:
That's just it though. He didn't dominate on Sunday. Hell, there were a couple puts the other guys could have made to win. Makeable puts. They didn't. So when people say he has no competition it's bull shit. He's won a few majors where it was there for others to take.

Tiger has lost some majors that he could have taken. But over all he wins more becasue he cares more. He wants it more. His desire wins him more tournaments then his talent. Being in shape is part of desire.

I don't know why these pro golfers don't get in shape like him. They make enough money. They have nothing to do in the off season but work out. They have the weeks before majors if they don't play the lessor tourney's. Tiger is the only one that choses to be in shape. Screw these other guys for not trying.


Agreed. And you summed it better than I could. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Getting in shape? Physically? Golf is a mental game. Tiger doesn't win this consistently because he's in shape physically, that's for show.

He's the best because he obviously wants it the most. There isn't a lot of urgency in the golf world. People seem happy to just take home a purse, not a title.

Tiger gets into people's heads, too. When you look at the guys playing next to him on Sunday, they fall apart like a house of cards. Ames is only the most recent example. He's intimidating because he forces so few errors.

I don't think Tiger's taking anything more than possibly creatine. And he most likely works out more than once a day, seven days a week. Just because he's cut doesn't mean he's doing steroids.


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W_Z wrote:
Getting in shape? Physically? Golf is a mental game. Tiger doesn't win this consistently because he's in shape physically, that's for show.


At the local country club, this may be true. On a US Open course, when Tiger is ripping a new Grand Canyon with a 7-iron from 195 yards in 6 inches of rough to reach a green, it isn't.

Golf at that level is mental and physical and Tiger can take and make shots that other guys cannot.


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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
W_Z wrote:
Getting in shape? Physically? Golf is a mental game. Tiger doesn't win this consistently because he's in shape physically, that's for show.


At the local country club, this may be true. On a US Open course, when Tiger is ripping a new Grand Canyon with a 7-iron from 195 yards in 6 inches of rough to reach a green, it isn't.

Golf at that level is mental and physical and Tiger can take and make shots that other guys cannot.


Yeah, but John Daly could hit the ball 400 yards and that didn't help him too much


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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:

At the local country club, this may be true. On a US Open course, when Tiger is ripping a new Grand Canyon with a 7-iron from 195 yards in 6 inches of rough to reach a green, it isn't.

Golf at that level is mental and physical and Tiger can take and make shots that other guys cannot.


Baku nailed it...but again, it's more about the position the ball is in, rather than the distance you hit it. yes you have to make good contact, but if you hit it 195 in the trees, doesn't help you.


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Baku wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
W_Z wrote:
Getting in shape? Physically? Golf is a mental game. Tiger doesn't win this consistently because he's in shape physically, that's for show.


At the local country club, this may be true. On a US Open course, when Tiger is ripping a new Grand Canyon with a 7-iron from 195 yards in 6 inches of rough to reach a green, it isn't.

Golf at that level is mental and physical and Tiger can take and make shots that other guys cannot.


Yeah, but John Daly could hit the ball 400 yards and that didn't help him too much


It helps him more than if he could only do it 285. Besides, when Daly is good, he can be a very good putter. Lots of guys in driving competitions can hammer it 400 yards. They can't always shape shots from the rough the way Tiger can.

It's not about overall distance as much as control Tiger can have in difficult lies and the trajectories he can achieve as a result of his club selection.


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Beardown
Quote:
Tiger is the only one that choses to be in shape.


A lot of guys have started to get in shape since Tiger started this trend of having personal trainers on tour.



Quote:
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W_Z wrote:
Getting in shape? Physically? Golf is a mental game. Tiger doesn't win this consistently because he's in shape physically, that's for show.


At the local country club, this may be true. On a US Open course, when Tiger is ripping a new Grand Canyon with a 7-iron from 195 yards in 6 inches of rough to reach a green, it isn't.

Golf at that level is mental and physical and Tiger can take and make shots that other guys cannot.


I agree 100%

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