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 Post subject: Re: Jim Ross Retires
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:02 pm 
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I will say that period where Ross had to call the show with Paul Heyman sort of rejuvenated him, brought him out of that deep comfort zone he had with Lawler.

And speaking of him, there's another guy who was getting away with crazy stuff for a while before getting into a rut. To say nothing of the stuff he did with Kaufman, if you go back to when he was mostly just on color but would still wrestle matches now and then, he cut a promo on Goldust where he called him, on national television, "a flaming burrito." Except the board won't even let me say what he said, but it was three letters and started with f. Can you imagine anyone saying that today? or five years ago? or ten?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aWKM-UZD3E, damn, dude

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Last edited by Curious Hair on Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Jim Ross Retires
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:05 pm 
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jimmypasta wrote:
As someone who has loved Pro Wrestling for over 40 years,I have to ask: "How do you guys know all the behind the scenes stuff? I know there are websites packed with info. Anything in particular?


You can pay Dave Meltzer for his weekly dirt-sheet. If we could attach files I'd send you the one from the week after the Montreal Screwjob as well as the one looking back 10 years later. Unless you don't know what it is, I think you'd dig it.
(I never paid for his newsletter ... my ex-best-friend got them and I'd read them while waiting for Monday nights to get rolling)

That said, I don't happen to think there's anywhere real special anymore ... PWTorch isn't shit anymore, for example ... and places like the WrestleCrap message boards (yes, there's a CSFMB-type board just for wrestling dorks .... it's a lot of depressing with the occasional gem) ... but it's just not as interesting to follow a lot of this shit anymore because it's all fairly (say it with me) shallow and pedantic. But I'm likely always going to be bitter that it's not perpetually c.1998, at least regarding wrestling.

I think the WWE magazine is very heavily kayfabe like it used to be ... same as PWI was ... all the Apter rags were too, I think ...

I kinda just realized I'm probably not making much sense to you James, sorry ... I don't want to delete that all so here's a couple links to look at real quick and, subsequently, regret even asking. :lol:

http://www.thewrestlinganswer.com/
http://newwrestlecrap.proboards.com/
http://www.pwtorch.com/

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 Post subject: Re: Jim Ross Retires
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:10 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
I will say that period where Ross had to call the show with Paul Heyman sort of rejuvenated him, brought him out of that deep comfort zone he had with Lawler.

And speaking of him, there's another guy who was getting away with crazy stuff for a while before getting into a rut. To say nothing of the stuff he did with Kaufman, if you go back to when he was mostly just on color but would still wrestle matches now and then, he cut a promo on Goldust where he called him, on national television, "a flaming GAY." Except the board won't even let me say what he said, but it was three letters and started with f. Can you imagine anyone saying that today? or five years ago? or ten?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aWKM-UZD3E, damn, dude


Working with an angry Paul Heyman will do that to anyone. I could almost guarantee Lawler had the OK from Vince to make the Goldust comment. Coming from Lawler's territory, that was like using the word "the" in a sentence.

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Telegram Sam wrote:
I would cover for SHARK, Drop In, Dave in Champaign, my Mom, and Urlacher's Missing Neck. After that, the list gets pretty thin. There are a few people about whom I would definitely fabricate charges.


Last edited by Drop In on Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Jim Ross Retires
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:12 pm 
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I will amend my McMahon rant by saying there is one advantage in pushing storyline over match play-by-play.

Most people will never realize how similar a given wrestler's matches are.

People love Sabu. Then I sit them down to watch 2 hours of Sabu matches. Before hour 2 starts you can start calling the match like you're a 20-year veteran heel.

ECW was never going to suffer from over-exposure. WWE faces that problem every time they ask you for a few hours of your time. So, calling storyline does help disguise the (often) rote repetition of the same wrestler(s) doing the same match (as they do on the road, incidentally .... few great matches were pure one-offs never practiced in part here and there on the road).

Anyway, fairness dictates that I recognize the significant positive aspect of storyline commentary in the context of WWE being on for several hours a week, on the road, and being the only real federation around ... in the US anyway. I will not begin a dissertation on Japanese Pro Wrestling now or then, the pros and cons of the Strong Style, because I'm too tired and nobody gives a fuck besides.

I still miss 1998.

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 Post subject: Re: Jim Ross Retires
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:23 pm 
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Don Tiny wrote:
I will amend my McMahon rant by saying there is one advantage in pushing storyline over match play-by-play.

Most people will never realize how similar a given wrestler's matches are.

People love Sabu. Then I sit them down to watch 2 hours of Sabu matches. Before hour 2 starts you can start calling the match like you're a 20-year veteran heel.

ECW was never going to suffer from over-exposure. WWE faces that problem every time they ask you for a few hours of your time. So, calling storyline does help disguise the (often) rote repetition of the same wrestler(s) doing the same match (as they do on the road, incidentally .... few great matches were pure one-offs never practiced in part here and there on the road).

Anyway, fairness dictates that I recognize the significant positive aspect of storyline commentary in the context of WWE being on for several hours a week, on the road, and being the only real federation around ... in the US anyway. I will not begin a dissertation on Japanese Pro Wrestling now or then, the pros and cons of the Strong Style, because I'm too tired and nobody gives a fuck besides.

I still miss 1998.


How many dirtsheets were criticizing Bruiser and Crusher's work? A good portion of society knew it was a work in the 60's. The characters sold it. I still put value on becoming, and being a great worker. But a good character that can work, with a solid personal issue feud, puts asses in the seats. That's what makes you reflect on 1998, and that's what McMahon pushes. Hard to disagree, but Ross also sold the story. If we're going to the thread title.

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I would cover for SHARK, Drop In, Dave in Champaign, my Mom, and Urlacher's Missing Neck. After that, the list gets pretty thin. There are a few people about whom I would definitely fabricate charges.


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 Post subject: Re: Jim Ross Retires
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:24 pm 
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Don Tiny wrote:
I still miss 1998.

I maintain the best time, at least for the WWF, was between Vince Russo's departure and the Invasion. Everyone just seemed to be firing on all cylinders without so much of the extraneous Russo bullshit.

Fell off hard shortly thereafter, I'm guessing. I was out as a regular viewer by late 2002, done for good by early 2005.

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 Post subject: Re: Jim Ross Retires
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:41 pm 
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Thanks for the info,guys. I think I have been on that Torch site. I want to start watching wrestling again. The problem being that everytime I put on WWE,I am not impressed. I have seen some guys on TNA I thought were pretty good as far as being physical specimans with some moves at least. It seems like the WWE has gone "small ball" or is it flipping on the show at the wrong time my issue? Where are the big guys? (IE:Steroid freaks)

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 Post subject: Re: Jim Ross Retires
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:51 am 
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Great thread. Need more Curious Hair contributes in these parts - good stuff. Don Tiny also with the knowledge hammer. Jimmy I think you would like the current product for WWE right now. The past 2 months they have really refocused and started with actual storylines to these feuds. The Punk/Heyman stuff has been sheer brilliance and Daniel Bryan as the ultimate underdog against Triple H and Orton has been entertaining and moving along nicely (for the most part - still hate the amount of HHH screen time but thats another thread :D ) Watch with us here on Sunday night for the PPV Night of Champions.

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 Post subject: Re: Jim Ross Retires
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:58 am 
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http://firstrowus1.eu/ For people's viewing needs ... Sunday or any other day.

There may be better .... they will be posted in time by others who know far better than I do.

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 Post subject: Re: Jim Ross Retires
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:07 am 
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I'm not a big Mark Madden guy, but I thought this was worth sharing.

By Mark Madden

Jim Ross didn’t retire. Vince McMahon got rid of him.

Anybody who knows anything knows why.

Ross’ alleged mishandling of that goofy video-game panel discussion that featured Ric Flair was just an excuse. Ross wasn’t drunk, and who gives a frig about a stupid video-game panel discussion? The manufacturers didn’t. THEY LOVED IT. What was said didn’t matter, because none of it was over-the-top controversial. Nobody besides the IWC heard it, and nothing said was new to the IWC.

Ross (and Flair) weren’t given any parameters regarding content by WWE ownership before that panel discussion. All bitching was done after the fact. Ross and Flair merely did what they thought would entertain – and it did.

To be mad at Ross, you’ve got to manufacture an excuse. His professionalism is beyond reproach, as is his knowledge of and love for the business.

Vince, Chyna Jr and the son Vince wishes he’d had pushed J.R. out the door for one reason: ROSS KNOWS MORE ABOUT WRESTLING THAN THEY DO.

People like that make Vince and Co. nervous.

Not that Ross flaunted that. But whenever WWE got it wrong, and whenever an angle went awry or underachieved, the McMahons knew that Ross knew. The McMahons knew Ross could have gotten it right. No one’s thought process has ever bridged the gap between this wrestling and that wrestling like Ross. Ross never said, “I told you so.” In fact, Ross never even told them so.

But Ross could have. Knowing that drove the McMahons crazy.

Ross found a way to don the thickest skin possible to endure the slings and arrows of the McMahons' shameless bullying and baiting. That drove the McMahons even crazier. Having to pay Ross, but not getting their money’s worth – certainly not in the way they wanted – drove the McMahons nuttier still.

Ross led the McMahons a merry chase – and just kept contributing.

Finally, they could take no more. All the crap the McMahons used to try and humiliate Ross backfired. It made Ross noble. Ross outsmarted them without even having to think. He did it merely by being Jim Ross.

I won’t discuss Ross’ career. Everyone else will.

But only one man can say he’s the greatest play-by-play announcer in wrestling history. It sure ain’t Vincent Kennedy f’ing McMahon.

Ross should not have been off WWE television for EVEN ONE SECOND. J.R.’s looks are a problem? A) Announcers are on camera for a couple minutes per show, tops and B) Ross sure ended up with a hotter wife than Vince. Yo, VKM...ever hear of the Americans With Disabilities Act?

Vince, in screwing Ross, screwed his own show, thus screwing himself. No competition leads to serving agendas leads to dumb-ass decisions.

I wish J.R. well. If he wants me to help write his book, I’m right there. If he takes over a wrestling company and sees a role for me, I’m right there. There are only two people I’d ever come back to work in wrestling for: J.R. or Paul Heyman.

But I don’t want to see J.R. take over TNA. Working for Dixie Carter would be a different kind of torture. But it would still be torture.

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I would cover for SHARK, Drop In, Dave in Champaign, my Mom, and Urlacher's Missing Neck. After that, the list gets pretty thin. There are a few people about whom I would definitely fabricate charges.


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 Post subject: Re: Jim Ross Retires
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:01 am 
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VKM at the announce table: "Whaddamove by xxxx!" Thanks Vince.


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 Post subject: Re: Jim Ross Retires
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:17 pm 
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The McMahon family, at least in the sports entertainment world that is WWE, has been talking a lot lately about doing what's “best for business.”

The official announcement that came down from company headquarters last Wednesday — on Sept. 11th of all days — was definitely not what was “best for business.”

It certainly wasn't best for the millions of fans the company likes to refer to as the WWE Universe.

Jim Ross, quite possibly the most loyal employee to work for WWE over the past two decades, saw his illustrious career come to an unceremonious end when his company announced that the Hall of Fame broadcaster was retiring “to focus on his personal business endeavors.”

“Jim has made many contributions to WWE and the sports entertainment industry, and we thank him for his many years of service and wish him well,” the terse release read.

But let's cut to the chase here.

Ross deserved a much better send-off than a brief statement from a company PR flack.

And to imply that Ross' retirement was of his own doing just doesn't cut the mustard — or, in Ross's wheelhouse, the barbecue sauce.

Some reports have tied the “retirement” to the 2K14 video game symposium held in Los Angeles over Summer Slam weekend that reportedly infuriated WWE brass. Ross, who served as moderator of the forum, and Ric Flair, a guest panelist, both were reprimanded over the incident — Flair for making “controversial” statements that didn't sit well with company officials, and Ross for allowing Flair to be, well, the Nature Boy.

That same forum, by the way, was well received by the game sponsors who put it on. But it apparently touched sensitive nerves of WWE higher-ups who didn't like some of the dialogue.

Others contend that perhaps a salary issue played a part in Ross's exit from the company.

I'm fairly certain that most of the fans who watch the WWE product would agree that Ross has deserved every penny of it, and the fact that WWE forced him to hang up the headset several years ago was one of the company's worst decisions in recent memory.

Whatever the reason, though, it appears that Good Ol' J.R. has been herded out to pasture. Sure, he will continue to receive obligatory platitudes from the same folks who apparently forced him out, if for no other reason than to avoid further alienating the company's fan base.

The McMahon family painted a politically correct happy face on Ross's departure.

From Vince McMahon: “Thank you for 20 years of service with (WWE).”

From Stephanie McMahon: “Thank you for everything. I've learned so much from you. You will always be the voice of the WWE.”

From Paul “Triple H” Levesque: “Can't thank you enough for all you've done for me personally and for (WWE). Enjoy your time, you've earned it.”

Always the consummate professional, Ross isn't likely to spill the bills and point figures. He'll take the high road as he always has.

He's been the whipping boy for years, the loyal first lieutenant who learned his place in the pecking order more than 30 years ago from Cowboy Bill Watts, who demanded complete, if not sometimes blind, loyalty from his employees.

Ross, though, has taken it all in stride.

“It all starts and stops with him,'' Ross once said of CEO Vince McMahon, who fired him several times during their tumultuous professional relationship. And each time, Ross came back stronger than ever, proving why his name is mentioned in the same breath as the late Gordon Solie whenever there's a discussion about wrestling's greatest announcers.

“At the age of 61 it's time to close this chapter of my life and begin exploring new adventures while my health is great,” he wrote on his blog.

But it shouldn't have ended this way.

The simple point is that Jim Ross is a bona fide legend in this business. Not just in WWE, where he has been the definitive voice of the company since 1993, but in WCW before that, in the NWA, and for Watts' popular Mid South and UWF promotions in the '80s.

Ross is widely regarded as one of the main reasons behind the success of Monday Night Raw, and his track record of being loyal, hard-working and professional has been well documented over the years.

But Ross has been more — much more — than an announcer during his tenure with WWE. For years he held the key position of talent relations chief where he oversaw the hiring of some of the greatest performers in the business during arguably the hottest run in company history. He also was in charge of the tedious and demanding payroll process, which no one else wanted or could even figure out, during that period.

Known for having a keen eye when it came to discovering new prospects, Ross was an invaluable talent scout who, until last week, helped recruit promising athletes, especially those who had excelled at the college level, and brought them through the developmental process.

He was a key consultant who visited WWE's training center in Tampa, and later in Orlando, on a regular basis to observe “the development of the young men and women who, I hope, all want to headline Wrestlemania some day.”

Jim Ross became a figure who transcended the wrestling business. He achieved celebrity status and became a brand name. Even Sports Illustrated chimed in last week, calling his departure the “ultimate slobberknocker.”

But Ross's broadcasting career won't be over. The Oklahoma native remains a top candidate for a position he considers his “dream job” — that of play-by-play announcer for his beloved Sooners.

“For the record, I'm not purchasing a rocking chair so I'm not going away,” he assured fans. “I have many interests and I plan on exploring them all.”

Gold standard


To say that Ross hasn't always been afforded the utmost respect in WWE would be a gross understatement. At times he's been bullied, on screen and off.

Ross has persevered despite several bouts with Bell's palsy, which affected his speech and physical appearance, and in a cutthroat business to boot. The Oklahoma drawl and honest, passionate delivery, along with an encyclopaedic knowledge of the business and sincere respect for its roots, have served him well. No one sold excitement and emotion like Jim Ross.

J.R. is, and has been for a long time, the best announcer in professional wrestling. Period. He's the gold standard.

WWE might not admit it, but the true star of many Monday Night Raws and pay-per-views over the years was Ross. And that's taking nothing away from the efforts of the talented performers who worked those shows.

It simply was Ross's magnificent storytelling that elevated the performers and the matches. Good Ol' J.R. in his signature black Resistol hat provided historical context for the bouts he called and always kept a step ahead of the audience's reaction to the participants. He had that rare ability to make scripted action feel real and sometimes even unforgettable.

In many ways, Ross helped his longtime sidekick, Jerry “The King” Lawler, elevate his game.

Pro wrestling is all about telling stories, and no one in the company could tell a story or give it the proper perspective like Jim Ross.

Sadly, it's quite possible that WWE fans may never see another announcer like Jim Ross in their lifetimes. They'll certainly never see one with the breadth and expertise that spans generations.

His voice will always be the one that fans will associate with some of the company's greatest moments. It never failed to bring excitement and enthusiasm to those who listened.

If there is something positive to come out of this development, it could be that Ross will finally have time to sit down and write his long-awaited autobiography.

“Business is about to pick up,” he will declare.

And oh, the stories he will tell.

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I would cover for SHARK, Drop In, Dave in Champaign, my Mom, and Urlacher's Missing Neck. After that, the list gets pretty thin. There are a few people about whom I would definitely fabricate charges.


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 Post subject: Re: Jim Ross Retires
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:48 pm 
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Ultimately, JR had to go. He's their best announcer, despite their using of Michael Cole. He's held numerous positions over the years, from announcing to booking, to talent evaluation to station relations. Where you are going to promote him? Get rid of Kevin Dunn, get rid of Creative, get rid of VKM?

Lots of "not going to happens," there.

They finally found their excuse and they're finally off of THAT hook, and in a way, so is JR.

I'd like to see him announce some football, and even some MMA

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 Post subject: Re: Jim Ross Retires
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:51 pm 
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Beebo wrote:
Ultimately, JR had to go. He's their best announcer, despite their using of Michael Cole. He's held numerous positions over the years, from announcing to booking, to talent evaluation to station relations. Where you are going to promote him? Get rid of Kevin Dunn, get rid of Creative, get rid of VKM?

Lots of "not going to happens," there.

They finally found their excuse and they're finally off of THAT hook, and in a way, so is JR.

I'd like to see him announce some football, and even some MMA


I really hope he gets the Oklahoma gig, and he's doing some work to get that done.

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Telegram Sam wrote:
I would cover for SHARK, Drop In, Dave in Champaign, my Mom, and Urlacher's Missing Neck. After that, the list gets pretty thin. There are a few people about whom I would definitely fabricate charges.


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 Post subject: Re: Jim Ross Retires
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:56 pm 
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Beebo wrote:
Ultimately, JR had to go. He's their best announcer, despite their using of Michael Cole. He's held numerous positions over the years, from announcing to booking, to talent evaluation to station relations. Where you are going to promote him? Get rid of Kevin Dunn, get rid of Creative, get rid of VKM?

Lots of "not going to happens," there.

They finally found their excuse and they're finally off of THAT hook, and in a way, so is JR.

I'd like to see him announce some football, and even some MMA


Why did they break up Ross/Lawler on Raw? Just because it was Michael Cole's time? Because last I checked, he sucked.

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 Post subject: Re: Jim Ross Retires
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:41 pm 
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jimmypasta wrote:
Thanks for the info,guys. I think I have been on that Torch site. I want to start watching wrestling again. The problem being that everytime I put on WWE,I am not impressed. I have seen some guys on TNA I thought were pretty good as far as being physical specimans with some moves at least. It seems like the WWE has gone "small ball" or is it flipping on the show at the wrong time my issue? Where are the big guys? (IE:Steroid freaks)


ROH. Pro Wrestling Gorilla. That local promotion whose name Bob should be able to rattle off...

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 Post subject: Re: Jim Ross Retires
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:45 pm 
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Beebo wrote:
jimmypasta wrote:
Thanks for the info,guys. I think I have been on that Torch site. I want to start watching wrestling again. The problem being that everytime I put on WWE,I am not impressed. I have seen some guys on TNA I thought were pretty good as far as being physical specimans with some moves at least. It seems like the WWE has gone "small ball" or is it flipping on the show at the wrong time my issue? Where are the big guys? (IE:Steroid freaks)


ROH. Pro Wrestling Gorilla. That local promotion whose name Bob should be able to rattle off...


AAW

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Telegram Sam wrote:
I would cover for SHARK, Drop In, Dave in Champaign, my Mom, and Urlacher's Missing Neck. After that, the list gets pretty thin. There are a few people about whom I would definitely fabricate charges.


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 Post subject: Re: Jim Ross Retires
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:48 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Beebo wrote:
Ultimately, JR had to go. He's their best announcer, despite their using of Michael Cole. He's held numerous positions over the years, from announcing to booking, to talent evaluation to station relations. Where you are going to promote him? Get rid of Kevin Dunn, get rid of Creative, get rid of VKM?

Lots of "not going to happens," there.

They finally found their excuse and they're finally off of THAT hook, and in a way, so is JR.

I'd like to see him announce some football, and even some MMA


Why did they break up Ross/Lawler on Raw? Just because it was Michael Cole's time? Because last I checked, he sucked.


There was a realization that Cole would always suck, until/unless they used him. The thing to do is to continue to trot his ass out until a) he improves, b) you become inured to what he delivers. (See: Beebo's opinion of Jericho, Christian, and Edge.) Problem with JR is, he is of a singular quality. Anyone you replace him with would suck in comparison. Although: Corny can do a pretty fair JR. Forget it though, when we get into a "Stone Cold! Stone Cold!"-style delivery. No one else can match that, not even a Gordon Solie.

[Drop In: AAW. Thank you]

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 Post subject: Re: Jim Ross Retires
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:11 pm 
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Surprising to hear that JR backed Jericho, seeing as he always made known his love for "hosses." "Bah gawd, that Bubba Ray Dudley is Bubba Tough." Wha? See, you remember all the good with him and forget all the WHATTA HAWS BAH GAWD crap.

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