and I'm a reasoned fan. Imagine the other 3/4 of this fanbase. That's the point. Good luck getting them back.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Dude, they know this. I was on the 10,000 list. I came up during Theo's tenure and turned them down. I didn't think it would be worth it. I don't blame you for feeling the same way.



The main point is, the Cubs know this. They are deliberately doing this, taking a hit now with the goal of paying it off down the road with "sustained success." I get why you disagree with that plan as a season ticket holder. For me, with nothing invested, I am willing to wait to get it right. I think they are going in the right direction.

I agree about the fanbase now. They will however, "get me back" when they start competing again.

I also admit this is a gamble. Maybe not everyone comes back. But I'm guessing if the Cubs start winning, the attendance numbers will get back in the area that they were before.

Yea because the previous 105 years of success hasn't tipped the scales. These past two years are what broke the camel's back.

Here's the demographics at Wrigley (and I'm there a lot and have been since 1996 at least). The shift in the last five years has been to see 18-24 yr olds on the weekend mingling with the 50 yr old and up bracket. During the week it's just the 50 yr and older bracket. There's not a ton of 30-40 yr. olds there. I'm generalizing but you get the point. The people that buy the majority of the tickets are getting older and going away. It's a slow progression away from the extra fans you got because of the widespread coverage on WGN. The Cubs going away from all that national TV is having an impact. The 18-25 yr. old bracket isn't going to stand up over time. It's going to move on to the next thing, preferably something cheaper. The Cubs are slowly, quietly losing their fan base and it's being accelerated with the current regime. It's only going to get worse.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Cubs should hire John McDonough back from the Blackhawks if they want to regain sports supremacy in Chicago.

Blackhawks 2013 = Cubs 2003. McDonough was the pied piper, turning Cub fans who didn't know what a power play was into Hawkey fans overnight.

HE FIRED SAVARD!

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

I don't think it's quiet, though. The attendance is down.


And like I said, I predict it will go back up when they start winning.

What you're describing is not a Cubs issue. It's a baseball/sports issue. Same thing could said for all sports.

you're missing the financial point completely. Fan attendance and money to spend (or lack thereof) are interrelated.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

it's a bad proposition to

a) need money
b) invest money (supposedly) in areas that the paying fan doesn't see
c) spend big money poorly (in the paying fan's eyes)
d) therefore drive down attendance
e) therefore needing more money
f) resulting in all the pressure centering on the minor leagues and prospects to dig you back out of this cycle.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Of course. But they are purposefully doing this. Don't you think they have considered the monetary ramifications?

I really don't know. It gives me pause to hear that the kids told Ol' Joe that the place was always filled and that that was the starting point for buying the team.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Coming in to this year, they knew the fans weren't going to sellout every game. That happened last year. This was known.


So if they were hurting for attendance, they wouldn't have sold off at the deadline.

they were only really in for a year at that point. They obviously didn't expect regression from their only young major league stars, nor did they obviously expect Edwin Jackson to be so incredibly bad. I highly doubt they anticipated losing this much attendance, this fast. And they probably expected to be competitive by 2014 or 15, at least privately. And I'm talking about the initial purchase of the team.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Right. I'm sure the attendance issues are very troubling when considering what they thought coming in. Not many saw this coming.


That said, they knew the attendance when down last year with a shitty team. It's not crazy to think it would go down further with another shitty season. Just using logic.

So if attendance was an issue, Ricketts wouldn't have allowed a sell-off. My point is, yes the attendance is disappointing. But it's not forcing them to move from whatever the plan appears to have been in the first place. Which to me, suggests, they are at least somewhat prepared for this, and the drop in attendance isn't going to cripple the organization.

A sell off is not bad for tickets sold. Why?
I sell as many season tickets as I can. Every ticket is on the market. In a non-competitive season, I sell from 75% to 85% of the tickets I will end up selling in Februrary-March. I sell a ton of them before the team ever hits the field. I'm sure the Cubs are not that much different. Therefore it's all about the pre-season product. Therefore a mid-season sell off, while it may hurt actual crowds does not impact total tickets sold. It is to their ADVANTAGE to put a teaser team on the field for a couple seasons until they're competitive that they will sell off in July. Does that make sense?

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

A sell off kills tickets, yes.


Were getting really far into the weeds here. But you'd have to figure out if the cost of "hovering around .500" is worth the extra salary of the onfield product... compared to the difference in ticket sales and prospects. I don't pretend to know how to answer that, but my blind guess is they considered that and chose to go the way they did because they preferred saving money on salary, losing the attendance so they could add additional prospects... compared to alternative which would have required increased salaries, loss of additional prospects and increased attendance.

this is how all board discussions should go. We'll agree to disagree, amicably.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Amicably is right. As I said, I get your pain. You're monetary investment in this creates a much different dynamic than mine. I can sit back and hope it works without any pain. You don't have that luxury.

I mentioned the WGN thing that COF laid out in some time ago as well. They no longer broadcast/brainwash/lure people from all over on bus loads to visit Wrigley. Just another point that Ricketts overlooked. Those people are not coming back after the age increase etc. It was the hey day and it is gone. The Cubs will draw when good and not as well when bad. Pretty simple really.

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Elections have consequences.

The Blackhawks skating until a few weeks before the All-Star break couldn't have helped Wrigley attendance in 2013. Same thing could happen in 2014--is the hockey season going later into June again due to the Winter Olympics?

And then if the Bulls hang around the NBA playoffs into June.

I really don't think that made that much of a difference. April was never a well-attended month anyway.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

MLB > NHL and NBA

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Latest Theo screw-up: "Wait,I can't talk to Lovello?"

I mean what is going on here? Documented screw-ups since he has arrived,one after another. At what point does Hoyer get launched as Theo needs another Fall Guy?

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Yeah, this looks bad for Theo, again, but it's also kind of a WYC on the Red Sox, who plucked their World Series-winning manager right off the Blue Jays with pure New England predestination. "You're going to be our manager, the end. It'll all work out."

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