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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:08 pm 
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I do not like Reinsdorf, but I will defend him here:

1. Jerry does not get everything he wants. He wanted to move to Addision and was stopped because the fine people out there did not want a diverse socio-economic and racial fanbase and "New York" owners (we know what that is code for) coming out to their fine burg. I believe they even had bought the land that the park was supposed to built on. Imagine if the Cub wanted to move to Addison at that time, think they would not have taken the team despite all the white yuppies who drink at the game and then pee on the Wrigleyville lawns?

2. Sox are 7th over all in wins since "Reinhorn" took over in 1981 through 2006. (Go to MLB.com and do the historical search.) Yes, their division(s) sucked because the Angels never spent any money before Gene Autry was stuffed and put next to Trigger; the Oakland A's never had any good players or pitchers during that time and did not go to a bunch of WS that they were favored to win and should have won but for the over-hyped Tony L.; the Indians did not revamp their farm system and pay to keep their good players in 2 different cycles over the past 20 years; the Tigers did not hire a GM who was known for building farm systems and who did not take risks in signing really good players who had knee surgeries in Vienna under questionable circumstances; and the Twins do not have a farm system that produces good, fundamentally sound players like clones. It is not like the Royals were not a premiere franchise in the late 70s/early 80s (until the owner died). Yes, the Sox should be shooting for their 26th division title in a row because everyone else in their division(s) sucked.

3. UC and the Cell are apples and oranges. Addision did not want the Sox, Chicago wanted the UC on the West Side. UC is privately owned whereas The Cell is owned by the State and leased to the Pale Hose. The State was not going to go back to the well for Reinsdorf AND Wirtz, they even told McCaskey to shove off. The Bulls and Blackhawks were not going anywhere whereas the Sox were to the extent that Mike Royko got into the act with his "Send your white socks to Tampa" bit. Two different sent of factual circusmtances.

4. Yes, Jerry is a good businessman who uses any leverage he has wisely. That is what business people do. (Ethics in business? You must live in a dream world.) The Tribune Co/Cub have no such leverage because no one believes they will move out of Wrigley Field. See also, McCaskey Family; Field, Soldier; Bear, Chicago; Heights, Arlington. If MLB did not want a team in Tampa, the collective owners would not have approved it.

5. Re KW: He built a good starting staff in 2005 and lucked into a bullpen. Long term jury is out on him, but I like that he aggressively seeks to resolve what he perceives to be the team's weaknesses. Is he always right on the "how to"? Obviously not. But at least he takes a shot at it.

6. Why don't you blame Jim Thompson and the Illinois legislators who approved the bill?

Now, why would you bring this ancient history up now? The only thing I can think of is that you are Cub fan and the Sox now suck. Can one own the board and be a troll? Go back to your peg legged, toupee'd radio announcer and blaming a mystical goat and the heroic Bartman for your team's incompetence and start worrying about the Cardinal. I wretch thinking that I will have to cheer for the despised, drunk driving, PETA loving, vegetarian of a manager they have this weekend as the Sox season is, as Hawk says very rarely this days, "ovah".


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:43 pm 
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well stated

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:50 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
The Cubs Division, having Houston and St Louis are enough competition. Both organizations maximize all their talents and while neither spends like the Yankees and BoSox, they have a history of going for it with spending big money when they feel necessary.

St Louis is one of the GREAT organizations in Baseball. I do include Minnesota in that select group of GREAT organizations and maybe they would not be great if they had money? But they Maximize all talent within the organization.

Houston and St Louis have been doing this for years and years, not just since 2006. While they have had their bad years, they always retooled and came back.


If you are trying to make an argument for the NL Central being overall stronger than the AL central, you are crazy. The Twins, Sox, and Indians have all had varied sucess over the past 15 years, just as the Cardinals and Astros (read:Not the Cubs) have had varied success in that same time span. The Tigers and Royals were miserable untill last year when the Tigers finally reaped the benefits of rebuilding, but now that they have they are on of the dominant teams in MLB. The NL Central this year is weaker than any AL Central division has ever been since it was stretched to 3 divisions. To call Kenny Williams a bad manager who gets lucky and GOT lucky is ludicrous. He may be a bit over rated by some of his supporters, but he is 10x the manager the cubs have ever had on their side of town, and the premise that the Sox have played in this horrible division and should have a Braves-esque double digit division titles in a row is an absurd statement also. You are coming off as a cubs apologist with a Mariotti like anti-Sox agenda

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:51 pm 
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Williams traded for the pitchers who won the deciding games of the 2005 AL pennant and World Series. He did trade away Estaban Loaiza in the deals though. :shock:


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:54 pm 
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and signed the guy who got out of the bases loaded no out jam in the ALDS

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:04 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
WELCOME TO REINSDORF LEVERAGE STADIUM

In exchange for the City of Tampa Helping Jerry Out they will be awarded a team, no matter how futile an effort an undeserving your city is.

One Day Good Dolphin and whoever lese wants to share in the discussion, it will take more than one beer.

And my sources are excellent.


what's funny about this is that it's common knowledge and BF is citing his excellent sources.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:07 pm 
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Tampa Bay is stupid if they ever thought they would get the White Sox. 10% of the Chicago(and suburban) market is probably much more than the Sox would ever draw in Tampa Bay.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:20 pm 
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We all know the Cubs are more popular in this city. Probably always will be. Still, Chicago is 8 million people. I think it's 60-40 in favor of the Cubs of the baseball fans. But that 40% is still a hell of a lot bigger then Tampa Bay. Plus you've got 4 or 5 generations of Sox fans. You can't buy that anywhere. That's built in loyalty.

Sox drew 2.9 million last year. They'll get 2.6 million this year. I don't think Tampa can draw that even in a division winning season. Hell, Miami never drew that when they had 2 World Series teams. Why would Tampa?

I also think the Sox are getting to be like the Cubs a little. They get the non baseball fans when the Sox are good. The Cell becomes a place to be. The Cubs get the non baseball fans even when they are not good. That's the major difference.


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