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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:20 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
So we've established bernstein's philosophy:

Player's brain turned to mush by a good clean hit = great Sunday entertainment

Player's brain turned to mush by a Brandon Meriweather cheapshot = a tragic event



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SIGH........THAT ISN'T A TRAGEDY.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:22 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
One of the main things I came away from yesterday's show with was the fact that bernstein doesn't not mind players becoming brain damaged in football as long as the damage is the result of good, clean hits.


it's been more than that. Football players necessarily need to become brain damaged so Bernstein can be sure to enjoy his Sundays. Oh and those players cannot be his kids, or the kids of anyone he knows and likes. This isn't hyperbole.
It is a little strange given how big of a deal he made out of CTE but I don't think that is a crazy stance. That is kind of how I look at it.


I think it's a reprehensible stance.

Of course it is. Either it's too dangerous to play or it's not. "It's different when it's personal" is another way of saying "I'm a hypocrite if it happens to involve someone I care about."

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:30 pm 
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Bernstein believes that a responsible adult - armed with facts and data regarding head trauma (along with the litany of playing related afflictions) - should be allowed to decide if they want to risk their health to pursue an NFL career. I would imagine he'd feel the same about the porn industry. Not wanting your child to follow those paths doesn't mean you wish they didn't exist.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:36 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Bernstein believes that a responsible adult - armed with facts and data regarding head trauma (along with the litany of playing related afflictions) - should be allowed to decide if they want to risk their health to pursue an NFL career. I would imagine he'd feel the same about the porn industry. Not wanting your child to follow those paths doesn't mean you wish they didn't exist.

I don't think that's quite his stance. I believe his stance is that a responsible adult WOULDN'T choose to play in the NFL, given the dangers. If he simply believed it should be an independent, informed decision, than he wouldn't be saying things like only the lower class should play football or you're a bad parent if you let your kid play football.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:39 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
the Irish mascot should be a gaunt, toothless, readhead smoking a F-A-G.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:27 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
If you had the Brooklyn J ews and a mascot with a black hat and big nose, that would be fine, right? The Black Men? A-rabs? It's meant to be an honor!!


That is my point. The fighting Irish IS the same as redskin. The goofy friar swinging the baseball bat IS the same as chief wahoo. The difference is who is the object of the caricature. It public derision really seems based on whether your group cares or not.
I don't agree that they're the same at all. Fighting Irish, or Fighting Illini for that matter isn't really an insult (although I could see why their mascots come under a bit more scrutiny). I truly find it hard to believe that so many people on this board don't view the term Redskin as a slur.


A little leprechaun running around pretending to want to fight anyone they can isn't an insult?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:28 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
A little leprechaun running around pretending to want to fight anyone they can isn't an insult?

Are you talking about Loho?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:30 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
A little leprechaun running around pretending to want to fight anyone they can isn't an insult?

Are you talking about Loho?


It was nice to know you. Wish we would have met before the end.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:35 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
If you had the Brooklyn J ews and a mascot with a black hat and big nose, that would be fine, right? The Black Men? A-rabs? It's meant to be an honor!!


That is my point. The fighting Irish IS the same as redskin. The goofy friar swinging the baseball bat IS the same as chief wahoo. The difference is who is the object of the caricature. It public derision really seems based on whether your group cares or not.
I don't agree that they're the same at all. Fighting Irish, or Fighting Illini for that matter isn't really an insult (although I could see why their mascots come under a bit more scrutiny). I truly find it hard to believe that so many people on this board don't view the term Redskin as a slur.


A little leprechaun running around pretending to want to fight anyone they can isn't an insult?

Yeah, this is more of wanting it both ways. Either Notre Dame and the Washington Football Club should change their names, or neither should. If you insist on being offended on behalf of another group of people, at least don't be flaky enough to pick and choose the PC cause du jour.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:39 pm 
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Beavers should be included.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:51 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
Beavers should be included.


That mascot sucks. It misses at least one game a month.





Hanley scale.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:42 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Yeah, this is more of wanting it both ways. Either Notre Dame and the Washington Football Club should change their names, or neither should. If you insist on being offended on behalf of another group of people, at least don't be flaky enough to pick and choose the PC cause du jour.


Not quite the same thing. I believe the press hung the name "Fighting Irish" on Notre Dame simply because they actually had a bunch of football players with Irish names. The official nickname at the time was the Ramblers but Fighting Irish was quickly embraced. In the same way, I don't think the Carlisle Indians was offensive considering the players were actually, you know, Indians.

"Redskins" would be like if you, me, and good dolphin formed a three-on-three basketball team and called ourselves the Hoopin' Heebs and hired spmack to dress in a black hat and fake beard as our mascot.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:51 pm 
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Take a look at the current ND roster. Something tells me these guys aren't still all Irish. I don't think it's different at all.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:59 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
If you had the Brooklyn J ews and a mascot with a black hat and big nose, that would be fine, right? The Black Men? A-rabs? It's meant to be an honor!!


That is my point. The fighting Irish IS the same as redskin. The goofy friar swinging the baseball bat IS the same as chief wahoo. The difference is who is the object of the caricature. It public derision really seems based on whether your group cares or not.
I don't agree that they're the same at all. Fighting Irish, or Fighting Illini for that matter isn't really an insult (although I could see why their mascots come under a bit more scrutiny). I truly find it hard to believe that so many people on this board don't view the term Redskin as a slur.


A little leprechaun running around pretending to want to fight anyone they can isn't an insult?
As I noted, the mascot could be considered an issue to some. Frankly, as an Irishman I don't really care. However, I don't believe it's in the same league as Redskin.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:06 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
good dolphin wrote:

That is my point. The fighting Irish IS the same as redskin. The goofy friar swinging the baseball bat IS the same as chief wahoo. The difference is who is the object of the caricature. It public derision really seems based on whether your group cares or not.
I don't agree that they're the same at all. Fighting Irish, or Fighting Illini for that matter isn't really an insult (although I could see why their mascots come under a bit more scrutiny). I truly find it hard to believe that so many people on this board don't view the term Redskin as a slur.


A little leprechaun running around pretending to want to fight anyone they can isn't an insult?

Yeah, this is more of wanting it both ways. Either Notre Dame and the Washington Football Club should change their names, or neither should. If you insist on being offended on behalf of another group of people, at least don't be flaky enough to pick and choose the PC cause du jour.

Using the term "PC" as a catchall negative was always a favorite refuge for North's misguided thoughts. Claiming another teams name is potentially offensive isn't really a good justification for keeping a clear slur as one.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:10 pm 
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I'm not saying the name should stay the same. Change them. Just don't apply your logic inconsistently, which is what you are doing and why this hasn't been an issue until the last year or two. Redskin didnt just become a slur in 2013, did it? Where was this movement 15 years ago?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:16 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Take a look at the current ND roster. Something tells me these guys aren't still all Irish. I don't think it's different at all.


Of course it's different. One is a nickname derived from actual guys that played for the team. The other is dehumanizing a people for the sake of "honoring" them. You might make a case for something like Seminoles or Illini as honoring the orignal people of a certain area, but "Redskins" can't be taken any other way except as derogatory. You might as well call them the Savages.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:27 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
A little leprechaun running around pretending to want to fight anyone they can isn't an insult?


I'm guessing Regular Reader might remember this. The day DePaul basketball made it back to the big time was when the network cut away from some blowout game to the last few minutes of DePaul at Notre Dame. They were coming out of a timeout and the leprechaun was driving a remote-controlled car with a sign that said "GO ND!" on it around the floor. Joe Ponsetto almost tripped on it and kicked it across the floor busting it up. Then he almost got into a fist fight with the leprechaun. Gary Garland hit the game-winner in OT and the chant of "We are DePaul!" from the few DePaul students that were there went up. Al McGuire was all happy.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:39 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Redskin didnt just become a slur in 2013, did it? Where was this movement 15 years ago?


that's my issue. this outrage seems really forced, like one day someone woke up and cried racism. the name has been the redskins for decades. to dig up all the racism stuff about the original owner or whatever is just grandstanding bullshit.

well, i actually have another issue. changing the name isn't going to erase the hypocrisy that we've held with the native americans here for hundreds of years. we seclude them in these depressing shanty towns and tell them we'll change a racist name of a professional sports team to something polite because it makes up for our racism? this country has shown time and time again that we don't want to remember what we did to these people.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:46 pm 
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Well, the movement was there 20 years ago. There were newspapers in the early '90s that wouldn't print the name Redskins. It just wasn't this popular.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:55 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
As I noted, the mascot could be considered an issue to some. Frankly, as an Irishman I don't really care. However, I don't believe it's in the same league as Redskin.


As a fellow Irishman, I don't care either.

But a cartoonish leprechaun doing push-ups on the sidelines is definitely in the same league.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:58 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
As I noted, the mascot could be considered an issue to some. Frankly, as an Irishman I don't really care. However, I don't believe it's in the same league as Redskin.


As a fellow Irishman, I don't care either.

But a cartoonish leprechaun doing push-ups on the sidelines is definitely in the same league.

What about a grown man that paints his face blue and orange and wears a real bear head on his dome?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:43 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Of course it is. Either it's too dangerous to play or it's not. "It's different when it's personal" is another way of saying "I'm a hypocrite if it happens to involve someone I care about."
Hypocrite isn't the right word. Elitist maybe. Uncaring maybe. Not hypocritical though. We all want the people we know to be safe and succeed.

I want someone to go down into the coal mines. I don't want my kids to go down in the coal mines. I don't want my friends kids to go down in the coal mines. Knowing an activity is dangerous doesn't mean you think it should be banned even if you want the people you care about to avoid it.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:13 am 
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W_Z wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Redskin didnt just become a slur in 2013, did it? Where was this movement 15 years ago?


that's my issue. this outrage seems really forced, like one day someone woke up and cried racism. the name has been the redskins for decades. to dig up all the racism stuff about the original owner or whatever is just grandstanding bullshit.


People have had a problem with the name for years. It's only hit a fever pitch this year for some reason. Maybe it's tumblr's fault.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:23 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Of course it is. Either it's too dangerous to play or it's not. "It's different when it's personal" is another way of saying "I'm a hypocrite if it happens to involve someone I care about."
Hypocrite isn't the right word. Elitist maybe. Uncaring maybe. Not hypocritical though. We all want the people we know to be safe and succeed.

I want someone to go down into the coal mines. I don't want my kids to go down in the coal mines. I don't want my friends kids to go down in the coal mines. Knowing an activity is dangerous doesn't mean you think it should be banned even if you want the people you care about to avoid it.


To be clear my use of "reprehensible" was directed at Bernstein. BRick I don't think you have the same position as Bernstein. We are talking about a supposed humanist here who openly lusts for the harm of others just so he can be amused on Sundays. This is different than mining since we are talking about a form of entertainment that is not essential to any sort of societal function. And I'm not talking about simply enjoying violent tackles. I'm talking about desiring that violent tackles continue, explicitly stating that it's sort of the function of "others" to do this for his entertainment, even while knowing that over time they may lead to traumatic brain injuries. His position is backwards, callous, and at variance with the moralism he expresses elsewhere on the show.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:28 am 
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You don't think I'm reprehensible? We are making progress in our relationship.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:16 am 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
As a fellow Irishman, I don't care either.

But a cartoonish leprechaun doing push-ups on the sidelines is definitely in the same league.


A cartoonish leprechaun? Is there any other kind? :lol: I'm fairly certain that unlike Indian chiefs, leprechauns never existed.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:59 am 
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spanky wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
As I noted, the mascot could be considered an issue to some. Frankly, as an Irishman I don't really care. However, I don't believe it's in the same league as Redskin.


As a fellow Irishman, I don't care either.

But a cartoonish leprechaun doing push-ups on the sidelines is definitely in the same league.

What about a grown man that paints his face blue and orange and wears a real bear head on his dome?

Well if you're Speeps jr, you call him Dad

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:04 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
You might as well call them the Savages.


I'd have to see how they dress while traveling before making that determination...

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:26 am 
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Glad they could let yet another ignorant attack on Catholicism go unchecked. They may exist and may even exist in Chicago but in my extensive review of catholic churches in the area not one of them is decked out in anything ghoulish and bloody for Halloween...and Kuma's could suck a fat dick with its lines and its attitude even before doing something that would have gotten you eliminated had you been insulting a less charitable group.

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