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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:15 am 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
Detroit is sending Texas $30M so they should be getting another player.

Now it's being reported that there are no other players involved. I just don't get this for Detroit. Sure they're saving money they can use to resign Scherzer but this is a huge loss to their offense. Why sign Prince in the first place if you're going to turn around and pay him to play somewhere else 2 years later??

Jon Daniels made his team a lot better tonight.

Maybe, but I really think they are going to regret that long contract. I hope not, as I like Prince, but that is a lot of years and money left on that deal.

True but Kinsler is signed thru '17 (with an option for '18) and he's two years older than Prince. Sure Prince had a "down" year but Kinsler has been down the last two years and he lost a step at 2B. I think this will work out real well for Texas.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:30 am 
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Texas seems to have unlimited funds, so in that case, it's a great deal for them


They'll probably end up paying him to DH somewhere else in like 5 years


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:31 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Enjoy drinking alone thru the holidays!


I have sat at several in law holiday dinner tables and thought about this being the superior option.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:33 am 
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312player wrote:
Yeah, depending on how much Detroit ate of that deal ... i think they want Cabrera to stay healthy n take it easy @ 1st base . kinsler to third maybe.


Won't it be Victor Martinez playing 3B with Cabrera DH?

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:34 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
312player wrote:
Yeah, depending on how much Detroit ate of that deal ... i think they want Cabrera to stay healthy n take it easy @ 1st base . kinsler to third maybe.


Won't it be Victor Martinez playing 3B with Cabrera DH?

I figured Platoon at 1b/dh with those two


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:39 am 
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This deal makes a lot of sense for both teams and here's why:

Detroit - After taking into account the kicking in 30M for Fielder, they are rid of 138M still owed to Prince over the next 7 seasons (til 2020). This frees up money to re-sign Max S. Also, by moving Fielder, Miggy moves to first and their top prospect Castellanos gets a shot at taking over 3B with the big club. They also fill a hole at 2B with Kinsler.

Texas - Get a big bat for the lineup that will make up for the potential loss of Nelson Cruz to FA. Even with a down year, Prince's production is greater than mitch moreland who manned 1B last year. They also finally open an everyday spot for Jackson Profar.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:42 am 
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Hawkeye Vince wrote:
This deal makes a lot of sense for both teams and here's why:

Detroit - After taking into account the kicking in 30M for Fielder, they are rid of 138M still owed to Prince over the next 7 seasons (til 2020). This frees up money to re-sign Max S. Also, by moving Fielder, Miggy moves to first and their top prospect Castellanos gets a shot at taking over 3B with the big club. They also fill a hole at 2B with Kinsler.

Texas - Get a big bat for the lineup that will make up for the potential loss of Nelson Cruz to FA. Even with a down year, Prince's production is greater than mitch moreland who manned 1B last year. They also finally open an everyday spot for Jackson Profar.

Nice post, Vinny. Well done.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:42 am 
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What did I miss? Why is V. Martinez no longer going to catch?

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:44 am 
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pittmike wrote:
What did I miss? Why is V. Martinez no longer going to catch?

Can't catch everyday and his bat is to important to not have in the line-up. Plus, he is not that good of a catcher. Pretty similar to what the Twins are doing with Mauer, except he was a much better catcher than Martinez.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:46 am 
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pittmike wrote:
What did I miss? Why is V. Martinez no longer going to catch?

You missed the last 3 years where he stopped catching


He's caught 29 games total since he got to detroit in 2011


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:57 am 
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Thats weird. I thought he was still mainly catching until he was hurt almost that whole year. I don't watch Tigers games and can't see many Sox against them. :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:09 pm 
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Speaking of Detroit's catcher position, Avila has struggled the last two years after a tremendous 2011. His throwout ratio went way down last year getting into AJ territory (I think he threw out 17% of runners last year). Statistically, Pena was much better than Avila.

They could use an upgrade.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:24 pm 
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Hawkeye Vince wrote:
Speaking of Detroit's catcher position, Avila has struggled the last two years after a tremendous 2011. His throwout ratio went way down last year getting into AJ territory (I think he threw out 17% of runners last year). Statistically, Pena was much better than Avila.
So he threw out DeAza 80% of the time, and everybody else 5% of the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:28 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Hawkeye Vince wrote:
Speaking of Detroit's catcher position, Avila has struggled the last two years after a tremendous 2011. His throwout ratio went way down last year getting into AJ territory (I think he threw out 17% of runners last year). Statistically, Pena was much better than Avila.
So he threw out DeAza 80% of the time, and everybody else 5% of the time.

Poor measure. DeAza might be the worst 20 SB base stealer in the history of baseball.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:03 pm 
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Hawkeye Vince wrote:
This deal makes a lot of sense for both teams and here's why:

Detroit - After taking into account the kicking in 30M for Fielder, they are rid of 138M still owed to Prince over the next 7 seasons (til 2020). This frees up money to re-sign Max S. Also, by moving Fielder, Miggy moves to first and their top prospect Castellanos gets a shot at taking over 3B with the big club. They also fill a hole at 2B with Kinsler.

Texas - Get a big bat for the lineup that will make up for the potential loss of Nelson Cruz to FA. Even with a down year, Prince's production is greater than mitch moreland who manned 1B last year. They also finally open an everyday spot for Jackson Profar.

Ok Detroit rid themselves of $138M but it was their sunk cost. It's not like Dombrowski is cleaning up another regimes mistake. He's the one who signed Prince to a 9yr/$214M contract. Now he's essentially paying Prince $76M for two years of service ('12: $23M '13: $23M $30M in future salary).

If you told Dombrowski three off seasons ago that he won't win a World Series, will trade Prince for a 31 yr old second baseman and will eat $30M he obviously doesn't signs him.

I just wonder if trading Anibal Snchez would have been a better alternative. They wouldn't have had to eat any of his 4yr/$68M contract and they could get a nice player in return. And he's not taking such a giant bath on Prince's contract.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:54 pm 
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Keyser Soze wrote:
Hawkeye Vince wrote:
This deal makes a lot of sense for both teams and here's why:

Detroit - After taking into account the kicking in 30M for Fielder, they are rid of 138M still owed to Prince over the next 7 seasons (til 2020). This frees up money to re-sign Max S. Also, by moving Fielder, Miggy moves to first and their top prospect Castellanos gets a shot at taking over 3B with the big club. They also fill a hole at 2B with Kinsler.

Texas - Get a big bat for the lineup that will make up for the potential loss of Nelson Cruz to FA. Even with a down year, Prince's production is greater than mitch moreland who manned 1B last year. They also finally open an everyday spot for Jackson Profar.

Ok Detroit rid themselves of $138M but it was their sunk cost. It's not like Dombrowski is cleaning up another regimes mistake. He's the one who signed Prince to a 9yr/$214M contract. Now he's essentially paying Prince $76M for two years of service ('12: $23M '13: $23M $30M in future salary).

If you told Dombrowski three off seasons ago that he won't win a World Series, will trade Prince for a 31 yr old second baseman and will eat $30M he obviously doesn't signs him.

I just wonder if trading Anibal Snchez would have been a better alternative. They wouldn't have had to eat any of his 4yr/$68M contract and they could get a nice player in return. And he's not taking such a giant bath on Prince's contract.


But in the end you can't change history and the Fielder contract was already signed. Now they got themselves off cheaply compared to the full 214M. And they can help open some holes for younger talent.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:28 pm 
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Hawkeye Vince wrote:
Now they got themselves off cheaply
And they spent $76million for a guy for two seasons. This is a huge problem in baseball.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:33 pm 
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Jason Vargas to the Royals 4 years / 32 million.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:54 pm 
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Hawkeye Vince wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
Hawkeye Vince wrote:
This deal makes a lot of sense for both teams and here's why:

Detroit - After taking into account the kicking in 30M for Fielder, they are rid of 138M still owed to Prince over the next 7 seasons (til 2020). This frees up money to re-sign Max S. Also, by moving Fielder, Miggy moves to first and their top prospect Castellanos gets a shot at taking over 3B with the big club. They also fill a hole at 2B with Kinsler.

Texas - Get a big bat for the lineup that will make up for the potential loss of Nelson Cruz to FA. Even with a down year, Prince's production is greater than mitch moreland who manned 1B last year. They also finally open an everyday spot for Jackson Profar.

Ok Detroit rid themselves of $138M but it was their sunk cost. It's not like Dombrowski is cleaning up another regimes mistake. He's the one who signed Prince to a 9yr/$214M contract. Now he's essentially paying Prince $76M for two years of service ('12: $23M '13: $23M $30M in future salary).

If you told Dombrowski three off seasons ago that he won't win a World Series, will trade Prince for a 31 yr old second baseman and will eat $30M he obviously doesn't signs him.

I just wonder if trading Anibal Snchez would have been a better alternative. They wouldn't have had to eat any of his 4yr/$68M contract and they could get a nice player in return. And he's not taking such a giant bath on Prince's contract.


But in the end you can't change history and the Fielder contract was already signed. Now they got themselves off cheaply compared to the full 214M. And they can help open some holes for younger talent.

I understand it's a sunk cost but Dombrowski is the guy who gave out all these monster contracts. He had to know hell was coming to breakfast sooner or later and I'm just surprised he couldn't find a better out than selling low on Fielder.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:29 pm 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
Jason Vargas to the Royals 4 years / 32 million.

They need to sign Feldman next .

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:45 pm 
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The Cardinals have acquired OF Peter Bourjos from the Angels for 3B David Freese.

It sounds like there are a couple more peices involved. I'm a little surpried the Angels didn't get a pitcher as the primary piece but maybe this is setting up another trade. Bourjos is a nice placeholder until Oscar Taveres is ready.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:55 pm 
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Keyser Soze wrote:
The Cardinals have acquired OF Peter Bourjos from the Angels for 3B David Freese.

It sounds like there are a couple more peices involved. I'm a little surpried the Angels didn't get a pitcher as the primary piece but maybe this is setting up another trade. Bourjos is a nice placeholder until Oscar Taveres is ready.


yeah i reckon the emergence of kole calhoun made awwww awwww mister bourjos expendable, even tho if you're gonna have a 4th OF type having a superfast defensively awesome guy is kind of ideally what you'd want.

but david freese? yikes... the dude's already on the wrong side of 30 and it very well looks like his .293/20/79 season could be his career year.... and he always seems to miss ~20-30 games/season with some kind of nagging injuries.... so i guess with his postseason heroics they're hoping he's the newschool scott brosius type for the angles?

and yes, that's intentional. i'm not calling them anything but the los angleles angles of angleheim until they start playing good baseball again. seriously if you're gonna trade bourjos to the cards wouldn't you try to get some pitching out of them? wtf is wrong with you dipoto?

oh wait, fernando salas is coming back to angleheim too. nevermind what i said b4 (cuz trust me, keyser will =) this trade is a huge win for them!

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:27 pm 
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Moving Fielder is as much about moving Cabrera back to the much easier 1B position where he won't come up gimpy by October as it is about dumping salary.

Tigers should've signed free agent 3B Adrian Beltre after the 2010 season. Instead they re-upped expiring Brandon Inge. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:08 am 
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sinicalypse wrote:
even tho if you're gonna have a 4th OF type having a superfast defensively awesome guy is kind of ideally what you'd want.


Unless you're the White Sox. Then you'd want Paul Konerko.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:03 pm 
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McCann is about to put the pen to paper with the Yankees. It will be even easier to hate the official enforcer of unwritten baseball rules now that he is in pinstripes. Just pretend you are surprised when the official poster of everything baseball shows up and says the exact same thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:25 pm 
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The Yankees signed BRIAN MCCANN! to a 5yr/$85M deal with a sixth-year vesting option that could push the value of the deal to $100M. The contract also includes a full no-trade clause. The Braves will receive a compensatory 1st round draft pick.

Wowsers. That's a hell of a long time and a butt load of money for a 30 yr old catcher with a history of injury problems. BRIAN MCCANN! will definitely help the Yankees offense but the big question is how long before they have to move him to 1B/DH. BRIAN MCCANN!


Last edited by Keyser Soze on Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:44 pm 
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No way his redneck sheriff of baseball's old school unwritten rules plays well in NY.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:50 pm 
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It might. Do they let you have facial hair on the Yankees yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:54 pm 
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Stupid signing by the Yanks.

I thought they were trying to trim payroll?


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:07 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
It might. Do they let you have facial hair on the Yankees yet.

Only on your upper lip, I believe. Not 100% sure though.


It won't play well because everybody has a list a mile long to throw at Yankees. If nothing else, he will be exhausted.
I hope A-Rod plays next year and gets drilled 3 times in the first month. It would be priceless to see the inner-turmoil play out with McCann. :lol:

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