Is anyone on this team ever held accountable? Don't you think a couple of players ought to be released today?

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

They should pack up the entire organeyezation in Mayflower moving trucks and move the Bears to Vegas where they can share a stadium with the White Sox.

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He has a higher yards per carry this year than Adrian Peterson. Peterson also has spent 5 of his 7 seasons as a "4 yd per carry back". Oh, and Peterson isn't very productive catching the ball either.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Good point. I remember them going to Forte repeatedly on goal line situations earlier this year. I also remember them spreading everyone out on like a 3rd and goal, then handing off to Forte to run for the 2 yard TD. Not sure why they went back to Bush this time. Perhaps Forte was fatigued or something at the moment.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

I hate the thread title and the player.

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Are you really attempting to suggest....

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

that yards per carry can lie? Yes.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Not taken in conjunction with a view of his yards after contact, or recognizing how infrequently he forces missed tackles. I'd estimate that to get his 80 ypg w/a 4.4 ypc in his 20 or so carries, 10-14 of his carries are for less than 4 yards, and the one he breaks for 30 yards wildly skews his average. He is, imo, no longer strong enough to push through the first tackle and has never been elusive.

As for his "all purpose" yards, it seems to me that he spends a lot of time catching a swing pass or check down on 2nd/3rd and long with defenders playing five yards off. D coordinators recognize his lack of speed/quickness/elusiveness and can leave their version of Chris Conte on the field to shadow the non-fearsome Forte en route to yet another Bear three & out.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Where does Forte rank in yards after contact? Where does Forte rank in first downs (rushing or receiving)?

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The numbers I've seen rank RBs by "elusiveness", segments of which include yards after contact and forced missed tackles. The numbers are a bit scanty in fairness. However, after a quick look he didn't rank in the top ten last year, and wouldn't appear to historically do anywhere near elite (or very good) status. Fwiw, Pierre Thomas actually was a top ten performer last year on that scale. The RB in 10th place by far had the lowest yac of the listed group. (Only 2.34 yac, 0.4 yds below any other RB listed) Watching the Bears I'd put Forte in the 1.5-2.25 yards after contact level, and that may be generous.

Another I saw was "breakaway percentage", i.e. how often a RB breaks off runs of 15 yds or more. Unfortunately Matt Forte doesn't score well there either. Either way, these would seem to support my eyeball appraisal of Matt Forte.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

So either his average is skewed by the "30 yard runs" here and there as you mentioned, or he doesn't score well on 15 yard + runs. It can't be both. You're making it seem as if Forte is putting up 2013 Trent Richardson numbers here. If your eyeball appraisal was anywhere close to accurate, Forte would have been out of the league after his rookie year.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

That's weird. He's in the top 5 in 20+ yard runs (tied with AP) and he's once again in the top 3 in all purpose yards. I know the Bears have an improved line but I can't imagine all of this is happening because he isn't getting touched. He's a first down machine too.

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It can very easily be both. His average yards per carry IS skewed by his single, inevitable 30 yard run he rips off on every one of his really "good" games. He doesn't score well on a breakaway scale (15+ yd runs), because a much comparatively smaller percentage of his runs are for 15 yards or more. Breakaway runners may have 3-6 runs like that per game, Forte comes nowhere near that level.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

That would be the greatest day in Chicago sports radio hithtory.

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So breakaway runners have 3 to 6 15+ yard runs a game but Forte in in the top 5 when it come to 20+ yard runs, how is that? If you are correct, wouldn't that mean those runners are only getting you 1 or 2 yards every other carry? That would mean Forte is consistently around 3 or 4 per carry if you exclude his 5 long runs.

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You would likely agree that he gets one big run every game or two. Most of the rest are unremarkable. You would also likely agree that if he gets that big run up the middle, there was a mammoth hole. If he gets it around the end (more likely) the first attempted tackler has taken a horrible angle, leaving Forte to run for 25-30 yards until he is caught on a good angle....or from behind.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

He makes people miss and occasionally carries them for several yards. I haven't seen many big holes from a Bears offensive line since about 2006. They've been AWFUL. He's had to earn every yard with 8 or 9 in the box. This year the line isn't good at run blocking but they are improved at pass blocking.

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I think where RR's argument runs into serious problems is when he says stuff like:



I think this undercuts any statistical evidence provided since now you're just nitpicking, as if every positive gain of Forte's is due to some miscommunication on defense or bad tackling, and by extension, Pierre Thomas or whomever is running through 13 would-be tacklers who've penetrated the backfield on his way to a fourth TD run, the most recent of which was an 88 yarder that saw him break 14 tackles in ways that Forte could never do. Again, if every Forte good game or big play was due to bad tackling or whatever, then he would have been out of the league a long time ago.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

This gets back to a combo of runners like Pierre Thomas & Darren Sproles vs. a workhorse. You only have a half dozen workhorse backs that have taken the overwhelming majority of snaps this season. Just by sheer number of attempts, Peterson, DeSean Jackson, Charles & Forte are going to score high on the raw number of 20+ yd runs.

But runners like Forte's percentage of breakaway runs will be low in comparison to other breakaway/change of pace backs who help form running back by committee groups. They will have a higher percentage because 3 of their 12 carries will be breakaway runs, as opposed to Forte's 1 out of 18-20. Percentages being the key concern here.

The reality is that with limited exception, the days of the workhorse back have been over for awhile. I'll take 3 backs at $4MM per year doing complimentary things over one guy taking a consistent beating.

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Pick a lane. This year's line is wildly improved over any other he's run behind. Or isn't it?

Two-three years ago he was special, he made people miss & still ran with power much more often. I just think his best days are long since gone.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

For the record I believe that if you pulled Forte's one big run every game or so, his average run would be in the 2.8-3.3 yards per carry. He makes positive yards on the overwhelming majority of his runs, but its best characterized by the old "three yards and a cloud of dust" adage. He gets his occasional one big run, but it's more a flash of what once was and more than at any other point in his career, more a factor of a better line and/or bad team tackling. It's also more than what you'll reliably count on against a good tackling team imo.

Finally, I'm not calling Pierre Thomas the second coming of Barry Sanders, just that he's more elusive (power + shiftiness) than Forte in 2013. That's all.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Forte is good, but fundamentally flawed. If paid appropriately I am on board with him. He is not top 5.

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Why is a running back to be judged on broken tackles? I'd take Reggie Bush too and I doubt he is running over linebackers either.
What is wrong with checkdowns? He's more productive than most of the running backs in the league.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

How much less should he make? What would make him a top 5 RB (because his top 3 production clearly doesn't do that)? Has he ever been a top 5 RB?

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Forte has 30 fewer rushing yards than the Saints top 3 rushers combined.

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1. I notice you missed the mention of how infrequently he forces missed tackles. A running back has to be judged on both. He doesn't seemingly score high on either.

2. There is nothing wrong with checkdowns. It's just that defenses seem to have recognized that you can play soft on Forte on long yardage situations. He isn't the elusive runner he once was and they know it. If it's 3rd & 7-8+, let him get his unremarkable 6-7 yds and force the punt. He'll get 40-50 yards receiving, together with his 75-80 yds rushing and his whopping 8-11 TDs a year.

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And yet the Saints have the 3rd ranked offense in football by points and yards. Thanks for pointing out that it's a passing game now.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Any running back who can't run between the tackles isn't top 5 in my book. He's not a great blocker. He is a great reciever and great in the open field. He hardly ever fumbles which is huge.

Obviously Peterson, Charles, and Lynch are ahead of him. After that its a big jumble. Hard to say since running the ball is now a by-product of your passing game.

I will give him this -- he's much better than Marion Barber.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Having one of the top 4 QB's in football never hurts an offense. Would you rather have McCown or Cutler instead? They have about 1000 yards combined receiving so someone is checking down a lot. Forte only has about 500. I imagine all 3 make more than the $6M I believe Forte is earning this season.

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He's one of the best blockers in the game. That is why he stays on the field. IMO he is probably the top all around RB in football and has been for several years. There are a few who are more talented but there are none who can do everything as well as he can.

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