Those are season totals. Jay Cutler has a lower yards per attempt. If Cutler has a bigger arm, it certainly doesn't translate.
We are arguing that Cutler's big arm doesn't really seem to matter. You can throw out all the hypothetical throws Cutler can make but over a long period of time we've seen that Cutler produces at best above average results.

I just can't believe someone could watch McCown run the offense better than Cutler and think that Cutler matters at all.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

That's a lot of wrong in a row there.


Of course you can win that way.

You are making excuses for why Josh McCown has better numbers than Jay Cutler.


Just step back and consider that for a moment. Then remember the day of the Cutler trade and consider it a little more.

Based on McCown's stats, he might be the best QB in the NFL. But nobody really believes that.

Again, I'm not saying Cutler specifically needs to be re-signed. I am saying it is a mistake to believe that a minimum wage QB who is afraid to make throws that could result in turnovers is part of a winning strategy. And I think the Rams game demonstrates it perfectly. No picks (garbage time not withstanding), and yet the Bears could never regain the lead despite the Rams scoring only 6 total points in quarters 2, 3, and 12 minutes into the 4th. And that's with all the great weapons that make Jay expendable. Do you think any of the top-tier or middle-tier QB's in the league would have just "taken what the Rams were giving", and hope to get close to maybe tying the game some time at the end, maybe? No way. You can sell it, but I'm not buying it.

If you go 4 games without throwing a pick, you are not making NFL throws.

The Bears offense has not lost a step since Cutler went out

You are making excuses for why Josh McCown has better numbers than Jay Cutler.

Numbers are great when they favor your argument, but then they're overrated when they don't. The Bears started 3-0 with Cutler this year, and there was a thread lamenting that Cutler doesn't ever throw for 300 yards. The very next week in Detroit, Cutler did throw for 300 yards. In a loss, and he played like crap. I don't care about the numbers. Go vertical and throw people open.



I don't know what this means.

What DO you care about?

The Bears offense is as good if not better with McCown. Do you disagree?

I'm not sure of that. They needed a David Bass pick-6 to get back into the Baltimore game, and they could not come back from a 14-0 deficit. People always fall in love with QB's that don't throw picks, and they overlook the fact they they can't make the throws required to be a serious contender.

I don't know what you are really arguing here. Better quarterbacks likely would have scored more points. I don't think McCown is that good. I doubt Cutler throws for four or five touchdowns either though.
Maybe Cutler should start "not making NFL throws". He'd raise his yards per attempt average!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Its not even that McCown makes them a serious contender (although I wouldnt completely rule that out)

Its that he runs this offense as well as the guy who is going to cost 15 times as much

I want a QB that makes NFL throws. That can beat defenses, and not just take what is given by them. Maybe Cutler can't do that. If not, get another QB that can. But don't be fooled into thinking that you can win a Superbowl with a minimum wage QB that is scared to throw a pick.

You seem to be coming at this from the wrong end.

It's not that McCown's play makes him an option for the future. It is that McCown's play makes Cutler not an option for the future because Cutler's "improved" play is fools gold when a guy who probably isn't that good looks better than him.

It's fairly obvious that Cutler should be elite in this offense if he is a "franchise quarterback". He isn't.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I agree. You agree with us.

The problem is Cutler's play is = to a minimum wage QB but he's demanding CEO pay

So does everyone else in this thread. Which is why they don't want Cutler.

Probably not. I just think he had a better chance to than McCown.




I do rule it out.

As far as the money issue, yes, if Jay costs a lot, you probably need to move on. But don't consider McCown or even a McCown-type as the replacement.

Well you shouldnt because teams have won with less, but whatever. Let's not keep burying the lead with your McCown angst. McCown is just a piece of evidence in the case against Cutler


Cutler is just not that good. He' slightly above average and slightly better (maybe) than Josh McCown

Any knock on McCown's talent is also a knock on Cutler and how he has played.

To be honest, anyone who wants Cutler to be back next year should be talking up McCown and how good of a player he is and how maybe he was just in a bad situation. If you really think that McCown is a poor throwing loser who can't be the starter next year competing with a rookie then how can you pay Cutler millions of dollars to perform similarly?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The West coast offense is a dink and dunk offense. You don't need a QB with a Canon arm to run it.

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We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

I guess I've just already decided what Cutler is. Whether McCown looked horrible, or whether he could avoid picks and provide his own version of fools good, doesn't matter. Do you mean that if McCown fell on his ass, that would help prove Cutler is better than we think?

People aren't just saying don't sign Cutler. They're using McCown as a herald that a grindy minimum wage QB truly can win more games more than all those prima donna QB's.

Of course. That basically was the case for keeping Cutler. You can see it in this very thread. People were basically saying the Bears were screwed next year without Cutler and how they had to bring him back or they are throwing in the towel. All of a sudden his backup who is still probably a borderline NFL player comes in and keeps the offense rolling and now it's down to "Well, Cutler can make some throws McCown can't even though it really doesn't translate to better play".

No, that is what you want it to be. It's not McCown vs. Cutler. I'm not keeping McCown over Cutler. I'm not keeping Cutler because I think I can get similar production for much less and spend that money on defense or even the offensive line.

We are seeing a "replacement player" for Cutler. Cutler's value over replacement doesn't look very large.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

He's way better than McCown. Way better. Still not worth a giant contract, but, way better than McCown. We probably won't get enough sample size of McCown to prove it. But the fact that McCown won't be leading the Bears or any team into a playoff run, just like Orton hasn't, should be enough to bear that out (get it, "bear"?)

What teams have made playoff runs with ball-control QBs?

See, all of that I agree with. And I agree it's a separate argument. You very well might get similar or better production than Cutler for less money. I just don't want it to be a ball-control guy.

West Coast style or not, you still have to stick it to the opposing defense. I predict Trestman sees it the same way, and will either bring Cutler back, or get a QB that can make vertical throws.

Neither did Cutler.

Depending on how you define them, I'd say Baltimore and San Francisco recently, and the Steelers and Bears before that.

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I know, it's highly subjective. Flacco, might be mediocre, but I don't know I call him ball control. Yes he had a remarkable streak of no picks in the playoffs, but I don't think it was because he was being overly cautious. He did have a near lock-down defense with him, though. SF, you mean Kaepernick? Different style of play, with his legs. Roethlisberger? Yes maybe overrated, but, he will still stick a ball in your ear; I don't know if I would say he just manages a game. Actually that's a good example of what Cutler should be. Capable of big throws when needed, but not being a reckless gambler. Bears, you mean Grossman? He was throwing vertical a lot before the wheels fell off.

You're just wrong here. You're basing this on some fictional Jay Cutler that never arrived in Chicago.

Cutler has never been better than the 12th or 13th best QB in the league. Right now, McCown is right in the middle of the pack, like Cutler usually is.


Make your case for Cutler being better than average

I know, it's highly subjective. Flacco, might be mediocre, but I don't know I call him ball control. Yes he had a remarkable streak of no picks in the playoffs, but I don't think it was because he was being overly cautious. He did have a near lock-down defense with him, though. SF, you mean Kaepernick? Different style of play, with his legs. Roethlisberger? Yes maybe overrated, but, he will still stick a ball in your ear; I don't know if I would say he just manages a game. Actually that's a good example of what Cutler should be. Capable of big throws when needed, but not being a reckless gambler. Bears, you mean Grossman? He was throwing vertical a lot before the wheels fell off.[/quote]If Roethlisberger and Flacco don't count as ball-control QBs then it seems like you are basically asking "What bad QBs have made playoff runs?"

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I won't argue ranking Cutler 12th or 13th. But if McCown is there now, he wouldn't be for long if he played a full season. Or, his team would not make the playoffs, like Orton's Bears his last year here (triggering the Cutler trade) or Orton's first year in Denver, despite starting 6-0.

Jeff Hostetler!


Well, I won't quibble about Roethlisberger or Flacco. So, you would say McCown is a poor man's version of those two QB's? Is Cutler is a poor man's Rodgers or Brees? Would you rather have Roethlisberger/Flacco and build a great team around them, or have Rodgers/Brees? (Asking seriously, not arguing)

So were all in agreement, that Cutler is not worth big money


Good talk

He's definitely not worth big $ long term. I still wouldn't be opposed to the Bears franchising him for next year.

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