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 Post subject: Re: Losing on purpose
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:54 pm 
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The new CBA is an attempt by the NBA to create parity. Not allowing star players to leave so easily and really penalizing teams that go over the salary cap. It may make a difference in 3 to 5 years.

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 Post subject: Re: Losing on purpose
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:56 pm 
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Right now 13 NBA teams are 100 to 1 or worse to win a championship. Jazz are 9999 to 1, though that may have changed after last night!

Only 8 teams have better than 30 to 1 odds.

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 Post subject: Re: Losing on purpose
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:57 pm 
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I don't think rule changes are the solution to the NBA's problems, and even though FF is right to point out the difference one man can make in 5 on 5 basketball as opposed to other team sports, the NBA can indeed become more competitive if it underwent contraction. The league is too watered down as it is because its best players are spread out over 30 cities, many of which don't even notice that they have a local basketball team. I realize this is an unreasonable solution, but if there were fewer teams in the league, the games would be much more competitive than they are currently since the remaining teams would have better talent across the board.

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 Post subject: Re: Losing on purpose
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:58 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Right now 13 NBA teams are 100 to 1 or worse to win a championship. Jazz are 9999 to 1, though that may have changed after last night!

Only 8 teams have better than 30 to 1 odds.

Fantastic news for the disillusioned NFL fans bemoaning parity.

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 Post subject: Re: Losing on purpose
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:01 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Mr. Reason wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Problem is so many teams have essentially zero chance. Stupid leagues (not Ligues) is the problem.

Isn't that the case in all professional team sports?


No. somebody just showed showed the data here - since 1980, only 10 franchises have won an NBA title vs 18 in baseball. that's a pretty big difference.

Obviously, they could alter the rules to make it more a team game and less reliant on 1-2 guys.



College basketball does fine as a team game and not every champ is the one with the one and done guy. Obviously, this is what NBA wants big stars for tv money. Screw the fans in the assorted cities?


I think you're touching on something right there. The NBA promotes players. I'm guessing that the percentage of fans that pull for teams outside the cities where they live is higher in the NBA than the other sports.

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 Post subject: Re: Losing on purpose
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:19 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Don't be a drama queen. You're oversimplifying it.


How's that? The very nature of sport depends on the concept that competitor is actually doing his- or its- best to compete. Do you want to watch a team tank? It's the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.

That's not their editorial position for sports overall. It is for NBA for the most part and the thought is not WSCR exclusive. Although I think Spiegel is a prissy bitch your shot should be reserved for Bernstein. Spiegel is pretty optimistic and has had the most faith in teams at the Score.


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 Post subject: Re: Losing on purpose
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:41 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
In watching my kids play basketball I noticed a rule I either forgot about or never knew. A ball handler cannot possess the ball for more than 5 seconds without passing or shooting it. Is there that rule in the NBA? Is it enforced?

If you're "closely guarded," yes. You can dibble it though, just not hold it. If they called 5 seconds when he was dribbling that's for some other reason I hope. (I just passed the IHSA basketball ref test yesterday) button 48.


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 Post subject: Re: Losing on purpose
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:35 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Don't be a drama queen. You're oversimplifying it.


How's that? The very nature of sport depends on the concept that competitor is actually doing his- or its- best to compete. Do you want to watch a team tank? It's the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.

That's not their editorial position for sports overall. It is for NBA for the most part and the thought is not WSCR exclusive. Although I think Spiegel is a prissy bitch your shot should be reserved for Bernstein. Spiegel is pretty optimistic and has had the most faith in teams at the Score.


It's not just for the NBA though. And yeah, I think you're correct about it coming down from bernstein. In fact, I believe that if Spiegel were actually reflective enough to sit down and think about what he's saying, he'd say to himself, "Oh my God, I'm becoming bernstein. Is this really how I want to approach sports?" But I can only go on the stupid shit I hear him say.

I thought about this some more and I think bernstein's sports thoughts- and thus, those espoused on the Score- are one gigantic ball of Who Ya Crappin'. On the one hand, all that matters is winning championships. On the other, it's all about the money. But which is it really? The NFL has created a model where it might be more lucrative to lose than to win. Should those teams be trying to win championships or should they be sitting in a room with pen and paper and figuring out if the increased expenses of winning a Super Bowl are offset by increased revenues, and if not, advising the coaches not to win? I can almost hear bernstein: "It's. a. business. It's. about. making. money. The adults need to get in the room with Bill Belichick and explain to him why they don't want to win another Super Bowl."

But back to the NBA. It's really not "all about winning championships". It's about entertainment, a television product, advertising, and fans in your building. As I said, the NBA promotes superstars. It's not the Bulls vs. the Spurs. It's Rose vs. Parker. So you have this entity promoting a guy like Tony Parker and some kid in Chicago is hooked and Tony is his favorite player. His dad buys tickets to the Spurs game at the United Center and Parker doesn't play because the Great And Tortured Pop actually thinks his job is to win a championship rather than being a cog in a money machine. And it's so stupid because as long as LeBron has both legs the Spurs can't win anyway. Why are they even trying?

The entire foundation of sport is the competition. If 80% of the teams aren't trying, how great can LeBron James be?

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 Post subject: Re: Losing on purpose
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:57 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Problem is so many teams have essentially zero chance. Stupid leagues (not Ligues) is the problem.

It's not the league being stupid. It's a flaw(if you wish to call it that) inherent to 5 on 5 basketball. I'm not sure what the league can do about it short of making the courts twice as big and playing 12 on 12. What would you do to fix it?
Stop superstar calls. Improve the ability to play defense such as calling traveling as it is supposed to be called. Modify the salary structure to be more like the NFL.

The league wants superstar teams though because they are constantly chasing the Jordan Bulls era of success. The problem is that the Heat are still an unlikable bunch and always will be except for those people that go from team to team loving the best team in the league.

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 Post subject: Re: Losing on purpose
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:52 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Losing on purpose
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:54 am 
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Don Tiny wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Mr. Reason wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Don't be a drama queen. You're oversimplifying it.

Yes, Rodney. It's my understanding, you must first monetize it.


It will be very difficult to monetize a sport in which 80% of the teams are tanking. Or do Matt Spiegel and dan bernstein believe that the only teams that should hold such a philosophy are the ones they root for?


So what you're saying is that we should get them both some Milwaukee Bucks gear?

:lol:




:cry:

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 Post subject: Re: Losing on purpose
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:05 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Problem is so many teams have essentially zero chance. Stupid leagues (not Ligues) is the problem.

It's not the league being stupid. It's a flaw(if you wish to call it that) inherent to 5 on 5 basketball. I'm not sure what the league can do about it short of making the courts twice as big and playing 12 on 12. What would you do to fix it?


Shorter playoff series favor the underdog

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 Post subject: Re: Losing on purpose
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:02 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Problem is so many teams have essentially zero chance. Stupid leagues (not Ligues) is the problem.

It's not the league being stupid. It's a flaw(if you wish to call it that) inherent to 5 on 5 basketball. I'm not sure what the league can do about it short of making the courts twice as big and playing 12 on 12. What would you do to fix it?
Stop superstar calls. Improve the ability to play defense such as calling traveling as it is supposed to be called. Modify the salary structure to be more like the NFL.

The league wants superstar teams though because they are constantly chasing the Jordan Bulls era of success. The problem is that the Heat are still an unlikable bunch and always will be except for those people that go from team to team loving the best team in the league.


And Jordan was a pretty unlikable guy. He was/is an egomaniac dickhead. If he was a current player now people would hate him more than LeBron. He gambled, drank and fucked anything that walked. Deadspin would have a story daily about him. He was lucky that he played before the internet was really a big thing and Nike could control all the media about him.

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 Post subject: Re: Losing on purpose
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:08 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Problem is so many teams have essentially zero chance. Stupid leagues (not Ligues) is the problem.

It's not the league being stupid. It's a flaw(if you wish to call it that) inherent to 5 on 5 basketball. I'm not sure what the league can do about it short of making the courts twice as big and playing 12 on 12. What would you do to fix it?
Stop superstar calls. Improve the ability to play defense such as calling traveling as it is supposed to be called. Modify the salary structure to be more like the NFL.

The league wants superstar teams though because they are constantly chasing the Jordan Bulls era of success. The problem is that the Heat are still an unlikable bunch and always will be except for those people that go from team to team loving the best team in the league.


And Jordan was a pretty unlikable guy. He was/is an egomaniac dickhead. If he was a current player now people would hate him more than LeBron. He gambled, drank and fucked anything that walked. Deadspin would have a story daily about him. He was lucky that he played before the internet was really a big thing and Nike could control all the media about him.


How many fat Puerto Rican broads would have dick pics from him? From Oakley for that matter .... :shaking:

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 Post subject: Re: Losing on purpose
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:55 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
I would guess NHL has the most random chance of any team winning followed by MLB and the NFL.

In theory, but the NHL had a six-team run over twenty years:

'74, '75: Philadelphia
'76, '77, '78, '79: Montreal
'80, '81, '82, '83: Long Island (plus a loss in '84)
'84, '85, '87, '88, '90: Edmonton (plus a loss in '83)
'86: Montreal again (plus a loss in '89)
'89: Calgary (plus a loss in '86. symmetry!)
'91, '92: Pittsburgh
'93: Montreal

Then from 1994-2004, you had the Wings/Devils/Stars/Avs hegemony. NHL parity is only fairly recent, and the Blackhawks might ruin that.

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 Post subject: Re: Losing on purpose
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:08 pm 
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You don't even need REAL parity, just the illusion of parity. If random teams made it to the conference semi-finals that would give delusional fans some ray of hope.

Look, the White Sox were a bottom three team in MLB last year. I can come up with a scenario they win 92 games next year and make the wild card. If Chris Sale catches fire at the right time, you never know what could happen. There IS a ray of hope here, however small.

With the Bulls (or 15 other NBA teams), there is no ray of hope.

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 Post subject: Re: Losing on purpose
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:27 pm 
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Right what Hatchet said. Not necessarily a different champ every year. I do not think 75% of your teams saying you have zero chance ala Bernsie is healthy.

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 Post subject: Re: Losing on purpose
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:25 pm 
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It's not healthy, but the NBA can't stop raking in TV money, so it's okay.

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 Post subject: Re: Losing on purpose
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:08 am 
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What if the. really. smart. callers. started calling?

"Uh, yeah, while there's no argument that Jerry Reinsdorf is the best owner when it comes to tanking a season, do you think Gar-Pax can handle it effectively?"

"Hey Dan, while it is important that the paying fans keep attending, should the rest of us keep watching on TV?"

"Dan, does the absence of hard statistics translate into losing not being contagious?"

"Dan, my son believes the Bulls are tanking and is upset that he got a Deng jersey for Hannukah because he thinks he'll be traded, what should I tell him?"

"Terry, is the media doing its job properly for questioning whether the Bulls are tanking?"

"Hey Dan and Terry, if tanking proves to be profitable and sustainable, what is the reason for tuning in to listen to you talk about the Bool?"

I'll PTFB and listen for my answers.

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 Post subject: Re: Losing on purpose
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:17 pm 
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No Clever Moniker wrote:
What if the. really. smart. callers. started calling?

"Uh, yeah, while there's no argument that Jerry Reinsdorf is the best owner when it comes to tanking a season, do you think Gar-Pax can handle it effectively?"

"Hey Dan, while it is important that the paying fans keep attending, should the rest of us keep watching on TV?"

"Dan, does the absence of hard statistics translate into losing not being contagious?"

"Dan, my son believes the Bulls are tanking and is upset that he got a Deng jersey for Hannukah because he thinks he'll be traded, what should I tell him?"

"Terry, is the media doing its job properly for questioning whether the Bulls are tanking?"

"Hey Dan and Terry, if tanking proves to be profitable and sustainable, what is the reason for tuning in to listen to you talk about the Bool?"

I'll PTFB and listen for my answers.


"No one's talking about" how great this post is.

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