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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:04 pm 
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I never thought much about Cutler's personality one way or the other. It did bother me yesterday when it sounded like he had no regrets throwing those two picks. He said something like he knows he can make those throws. The guy never regrets anything. His "could care less" attitude is annoying but when he throws that football,it sounds different according to B&B about 5 years ago.

I still think he is having his best season BUT I would have stuck with McCown because results matter more than supposed talent.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:05 pm 
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He's going to fuck up. They all fuck up. Tom Brady fucks up. But I'd rather he fuck up in the 1st quarter than the 4th. And he's generally been excellent in late game clutch situations.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:06 pm 
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The statistical movement in football is fine but eye test reigns supreme. The cherry picking of stats leads to decisions such as:

Quote:
At 5:15 a.m., Tony Khan, the team's senior vice president of technology and analytics (and the son of Jags owner Shahid Khan), walked into Bradley's office and placed three handwritten sheets of paper on the coach's desk. Later that morning -- once Bradley had deciphered the penmanship and presentation, which had the look of a seventh-grade book report -- he began to understand the significance of the data Khan had compiled. This wasn't a grizzled old scout asking him to trust his gut. This wasn't a spreadsheet of stats any fantasy football player could acquire. This was something different, something more. This was the future.

The page titled "Blaine QB Rating Stats" revealed that when adjusted for drops, throwaways and spikes, Gabbert's passer rating in 2012 was a respectable 82.8. The next page, "Blaine Time in the Pocket," detailed the Jags' woeful pass protection: The line gave Gabbert an average of just 2.56 seconds to throw the ball. When he had more than 2.6 seconds to throw, his QB rating jumped to 84.5. The final page, "Blaine Under Pressure," showed that when facing a six-man rush, Gabbert ranked first among QBs in completion percentage
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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:12 pm 
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I think the final year with Martz was his best. His injury really killed the season. I believe the Bears could have won the SB that year because it appeared Martz had finally gotten through to Cutler.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:15 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
He's going to fuck up. They all fuck up. Tom Brady fucks up. But I'd rather he fuck up in the 1st quarter than the 4th. And he's generally been excellent in late game clutch situations.


I love him and have never thought of him as clutch. What games? The San Francisco game in 2009 has always stuck with me.


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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:17 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
He's going to fuck up. They all fuck up. Tom Brady fucks up. But I'd rather he fuck up in the 1st quarter than the 4th. And he's generally been excellent in late game clutch situations.


I love him and have never thought of him as clutch. What games? The San Francisco game in 2009 has always stuck with me.


I haven't either but the numbers say differently. The early season win against Minnesota sticks out. He was bad but came up big when it counted. All was forgiven because of that.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:19 pm 
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I don't feel like looking it up. But I think he's consistently among the highest rated 4th qtr QBs.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:21 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
I don't feel like looking it up. But I think he's consistently among the highest rated 4th qtr QBs.


All I know is what I see. McCown drove the Bears 80 yards to tie Washington with 2 minutes left but missed the 2 point conversion. He has played very good to unreal in 6 straight games this season.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:22 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
I don't feel like looking it up. But I think he's consistently among the highest rated 4th qtr QBs.


The last few years he has been but a lot of that is garbage yards. Even when the defense has been responsible for scoring the game winning touchdown or setting up the game winning points he still gets credit for the "comeback" win. I was once a huge Cutler fan (would love to be one again) and I never saw him as being great in the 4th. The numbers are the numbers though.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:35 pm 
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I don't see how a QB on consistently 10-win teams can be getting garbage 4th quarter stats. If they are winning, he's not throwing much and they usually aren't losing too often at about 6 losses a season.

3-win teams have QBs with garbage 4th qtr stats.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:38 pm 
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He did nothing great or horrible yesterday. He's just there, and I want him to be more than just there, I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:40 pm 
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If the Cowboys win their early game vs the DC NFL team, the Eagles game vs the Bears basically doesn't matter to the Eagles?

But if the Cowboys lose, the Eagles can clinch the NFC East by beating the Bears.

I think that's right.


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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:41 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
I don't see how a QB on consistently 10-win teams can be getting garbage 4th quarter stats. If they are winning, he's not throwing much and they usually aren't losing too often at about 6 losses a season.

3-win teams have QBs with garbage 4th qtr stats.


The point is his passing yards and other stats are fairly meaningless if you've watched all the games. The game recaps are always there to look at too. If he completes 7 of 8 passes for 60 yards in a game the Bears were already in control of or if he does what he did in 2 games this year and score 4 meaningless touchdowns against prevent defenses his numbers don't tell you that. They say Cutler is great in the 4th quarter. He has been clutch in a few games over the past couple of years but I wouldn't say he's been the best as his numbers do. Do you think that's unreasonable?

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:41 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
He did nothing great or horrible yesterday. He's just there, and I want him to be more than just there, I guess.


Well, he didn't need a cheap pass-interference call or an onsides kick recovery to beat Cleveland, like Tom Brady did the week before. At home.


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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:41 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
He did nothing great or horrible yesterday. He's just there, and I want him to be more than just there, I guess.


I guess I watched a different game. Wasn't he like 11/12 for 150 on 3rd downs? That seems pretty clutch and great to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:44 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
I don't see how a QB on consistently 10-win teams can be getting garbage 4th quarter stats. If they are winning, he's not throwing much and they usually aren't losing too often at about 6 losses a season.

3-win teams have QBs with garbage 4th qtr stats.


The point is his passing yards and other stats are fairly meaningless if you've watched all the games. The game recaps are always there to look at too. If he completes 7 of 8 passes for 60 yards in a game the Bears were already in control of or if he does what he did in 2 games this year and score 4 meaningless touchdowns against prevent defenses his numbers don't tell you that. They say Cutler is great in the 4th quarter. He has been clutch in a few games over the past couple of years but I wouldn't say he's been the best as his numbers do. Do you think that's unreasonable?


I guess I just disagree. I feel very comfortable with him having the ball on a final drive. I feel like he's done it a number of times but I don't have the recall to cite the specific times. I could be wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:45 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
He did nothing great or horrible yesterday. He's just there, and I want him to be more than just there, I guess.


I guess I watched a different game. Wasn't he like 11/12 for 150 on 3rd downs? That seems pretty clutch and great to me.


I'll take those 3rd down numbers every week but there was more to the game than that. He was mediocre and turnover prone. That pretty much describes his entire time as a Bear. So much talent but he can never consistently put it together. It's frustrating to watch.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:45 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
I don't see how a QB on consistently 10-win teams can be getting garbage 4th quarter stats. If they are winning, he's not throwing much and they usually aren't losing too often at about 6 losses a season.

3-win teams have QBs with garbage 4th qtr stats.


The point is his passing yards and other stats are fairly meaningless if you've watched all the games. The game recaps are always there to look at too. If he completes 7 of 8 passes for 60 yards in a game the Bears were already in control of or if he does what he did in 2 games this year and score 4 meaningless touchdowns against prevent defenses his numbers don't tell you that. They say Cutler is great in the 4th quarter. He has been clutch in a few games over the past couple of years but I wouldn't say he's been the best as his numbers do. Do you think that's unreasonable?


Fair enough, but if we're talking about cherry-picking in this thread, don't forget McCown played against a prevent defense the entire game in St. Louis. Also don't forget Cutler's 4th qtr game-winning drive against Cincinnati, the best defense the Bears have seen all year.


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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:46 pm 
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BTW he is still injured too. There were a couple of plays where it was clear he is still nursing an injury.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:48 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
He did nothing great or horrible yesterday. He's just there, and I want him to be more than just there, I guess.


I guess I watched a different game. Wasn't he like 11/12 for 150 on 3rd downs? That seems pretty clutch and great to me.


I'll take those 3rd down numbers every week but there was more to the game than that. He was mediocre and turnover prone. That pretty much describes his entire time as a Bear. So much talent but he can never consistently put it together. It's frustrating to watch.


The turnovers were early. He was great when they needed it. Isn't that what you want?

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:48 pm 
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24_Guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
I don't see how a QB on consistently 10-win teams can be getting garbage 4th quarter stats. If they are winning, he's not throwing much and they usually aren't losing too often at about 6 losses a season.

3-win teams have QBs with garbage 4th qtr stats.


The point is his passing yards and other stats are fairly meaningless if you've watched all the games. The game recaps are always there to look at too. If he completes 7 of 8 passes for 60 yards in a game the Bears were already in control of or if he does what he did in 2 games this year and score 4 meaningless touchdowns against prevent defenses his numbers don't tell you that. They say Cutler is great in the 4th quarter. He has been clutch in a few games over the past couple of years but I wouldn't say he's been the best as his numbers do. Do you think that's unreasonable?


Fair enough, but if we're talking about cherry-picking in this thread, don't forget McCown played against a prevent defense the entire game in St. Louis. Also don't forget Cutler's 4th qtr game-winning drive against Cincinnati, the best defense the Bears have seen all year.


The Cincinnati score was set up by the Bears defense a drive after Cutler hit a defender in the numbers but the defender dropped it. I don't remember McCown playing against a prevent defense against the Rams. If you're trying to say Cutler is better than McCown you won't get an argument from me. I've never argued that.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:49 pm 
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Nas wrote:
BTW he is still injured too. There were a couple of plays where it was clear he is still nursing an injury.


I didn't think so. He said on his show he got hit in the ankle and he was fine.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:50 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Nas wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
He did nothing great or horrible yesterday. He's just there, and I want him to be more than just there, I guess.


I guess I watched a different game. Wasn't he like 11/12 for 150 on 3rd downs? That seems pretty clutch and great to me.


I'll take those 3rd down numbers every week but there was more to the game than that. He was mediocre and turnover prone. That pretty much describes his entire time as a Bear. So much talent but he can never consistently put it together. It's frustrating to watch.


The turnovers were early. He was great when they needed it. Isn't that what you want?


I want a consistently good/great Cutler and not a consistently mediocre. With his talent that isn't too much to ask. Mediocre can't win most Sunday's with this defense.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:51 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Nas wrote:
BTW he is still injured too. There were a couple of plays where it was clear he is still nursing an injury.


I didn't think so. He said on his show he got hit in the ankle and he was fine.


In the 4th quarter there was a few times he appeared to be hurt getting up and walking back to the huddle.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:53 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Yeah, the running plays hitting at a 5+ YPC clip that made third and short a game of pitch and catch...especially after Haden went down.


Not quite true, good dolphin:

3rd and 7 - 23 yard completion
3rd and 11 - 22 yard completion
3rd and 4 - 8 yard completion
3rd and 8 - 18 yard completion
3rd and 8 - 4 yard completion (fail to convert)
3rd and 15 - Incomplete
3rd and 8 - 7 yard completion (fail to convert)
3rd and 5 - 8 yard completion
3rd and 8 - completion/Bennett fumble
3rd and 11 - 7 yard completion (fail to convert)
3rd and 2 - 8 yard completion
3rd and 11 - 45 yard TD
3rd and 4 - TD


http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbypla ... 5&period=4


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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:54 pm 
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Do you think he should have been better in the first games of the season? I do. He needs to be at least a top 10 quarterback, maybe 5. He's not.


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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:56 pm 
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I wonder what his stat's look like if he didn't have a top 5 RB playing with him?

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:57 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
Do you think he should have been better in the first games of the season? I do. He needs to be at least a top 10 quarterback, maybe 5. He's not.


He has top 5 talent but he's a top 15 to 20 QB.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:57 pm 
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jimmypasta wrote:
I wonder what his stat's look like if he didn't have a top 5 RB playing with him?


Forte is one of the most underrated players in the NFL. Hell most Bears fans seem to think he's worthless too.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:10 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
Do you think he should have been better in the first games of the season? I do.


What do you mean? He started 3-0, with ratings of 93.2, 97.7, and 90.8 !! ?? That includes whatever horrible turnovers he might have committed. The Detroit game was bad but the defense let it get out of hand - remember, the St. Louis game "wasn't McCown's fault" because the defense was so bad that game. Then against New Orleans, a pretty good defense, he had his best game of the year - 128.1 rating. Then they beat NYG, then came the injury.

Sheez, Spaulding, what among that do you want to be better???



Nas wrote:
The Cincinnati score was set up by the Bears defense a drive after Cutler hit a defender in the numbers but the defender dropped it. I don't remember McCown playing against a prevent defense against the Rams. If you're trying to say Cutler is better than McCown you won't get an argument from me. I've never argued that.


I know, and I understand the frustration with Cutler. There's good and bad; just don't overlook the good - it's there.

Nas wrote:
Forte is one of the most underrated players in the NFL. Hell most Bears fans seem to think he's worthless too.


I know, I saw you having that argument a few weeks ago. It's ridiculous.


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