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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:15 pm 
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Bucky Chris wrote:
Didn't you literally ask for the fourth quarter stats? Don't be a dick when someone does something for you.
I'm grateful. I was just wondering if there was anything to discern from those statistics or if any case is being made about them. It turns out, there isn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:17 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
Didn't you literally ask for the fourth quarter stats? Don't be a dick when someone does something for you.
I'm grateful. I was just wondering if there was anything to discern from those statistics or if any case is being made about them. It turns out, there isn't.


Jay Cutler is really really clutch. He's as clutch as a clutch QB can be. Cutty = Clutchy.


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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:18 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ok, so Cutler is good at times. Glad we can move on.


If by "good at times" you mean "the best in the NFL during the most important time of the game" then, yes, we can move on.

Maybe you don't think that statistic is a fair representation. That's fine.
You sound close to making a case here for something.

I mean, I get that statistically he's better than Aaron Rodgers and Peyton Manning, but what does that tell us?

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:19 pm 
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Bucky Chris wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
Didn't you literally ask for the fourth quarter stats? Don't be a dick when someone does something for you.
I'm grateful. I was just wondering if there was anything to discern from those statistics or if any case is being made about them. It turns out, there isn't.


Jay Cutler is really really clutch. He's as clutch as a clutch QB can be. Cutty = Clutchy.
How should that effect the opinion on his overall work?

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:20 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ok, so Cutler is good at times. Glad we can move on.


If by "good at times" you mean "the best in the NFL during the most important time of the game" then, yes, we can move on.

Maybe you don't think that statistic is a fair representation. That's fine.

Do you think it's a fair representation?

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:20 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ok, so Cutler is good at times. Glad we can move on.


If by "good at times" you mean "the best in the NFL during the most important time of the game" then, yes, we can move on.

Maybe you don't think that statistic is a fair representation. That's fine.
You sound close to making a case here for something.

I mean, I get that statistically he's better than Aaron Rodgers and Peyton Manning, but what does that tell us?


I'm stating the case that I've been stating since I was the one who brought it up. He's very good in late-game situations.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:21 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
Didn't you literally ask for the fourth quarter stats? Don't be a dick when someone does something for you.
I'm grateful. I was just wondering if there was anything to discern from those statistics or if any case is being made about them. It turns out, there isn't.


Jay Cutler is really really clutch. He's as clutch as a clutch QB can be. Cutty = Clutchy.
How should that effect the opinion on his overall work?


It should be seen as a positive. On the pro side of the pros/cons list.


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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:23 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ok, so Cutler is good at times. Glad we can move on.


If by "good at times" you mean "the best in the NFL during the most important time of the game" then, yes, we can move on.

Maybe you don't think that statistic is a fair representation. That's fine.

Do you think it's a fair representation?


I think it shows that he's among the best which seems fair.

Does anybody have any evidence that he is not?

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:24 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ok, so Cutler is good at times. Glad we can move on.


If by "good at times" you mean "the best in the NFL during the most important time of the game" then, yes, we can move on.

Maybe you don't think that statistic is a fair representation. That's fine.

Do you think it's a fair representation?


I think it shows that he's among the best which seems fair.

Does anybody have any evidence that he is not?


My eyes, Doc. My eyes.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:25 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ok, so Cutler is good at times. Glad we can move on.


If by "good at times" you mean "the best in the NFL during the most important time of the game" then, yes, we can move on.

Maybe you don't think that statistic is a fair representation. That's fine.

Do you think it's a fair representation?


I think it shows that he's among the best which seems fair.

Does anybody have any evidence that he is not?

His previous 3 seasons before this and last.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:26 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
I think it shows that he's among the best which seems fair.
Now we are getting somewhere.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Does anybody have any evidence that he is not?
Pretty much every statistic that covers all four quarters.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:28 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
I think it shows that he's among the best which seems fair.
Now we are getting somewhere.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Does anybody have any evidence that he is not?
Pretty much every statistic that covers all four quarters.


Among the best in the 4th quarter is what I was saying.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:29 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
I think it shows that he's among the best which seems fair.
Now we are getting somewhere.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Does anybody have any evidence that he is not?
Pretty much every statistic that covers all four quarters.


How is it possible you still don't understand what Ken is saying? He's talking about the 4th quarter.


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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:30 pm 
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For those who are more in favor of Cutler, I have an honest question:

When you watch him play, do you notice that the offense sputters a great deal and doesn't stay on time? I'm not saying that's not true of every offense at some point, but even when Cutler does manage to move the ball, it's never in rhythm. It's always 1 yard, 1 yard, 18 yards. That's fine if you can sustain it, but it doesn't work against good defenses. When you get yourself in long yardage situations, it's hard to maintain drives, and he starts forcing the ball, which leads to turnovers. I'm not saying McCown is the best ever, but when he's in, he does keep things in rhythm. He hits guys quickly, giving them the opportunity for YAC. He hits guys in stride on swing passes. He doesn't wait too long to get rid of the ball. He leads guys on the inside breaking routes.

Does anyone else see this, or do I have some type of bias I'm not realizing?

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:31 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
For those who are more in favor of Cutler, I have an honest question:

When you watch him play, do you notice that the offense sputters a great deal and doesn't stay on time? I'm not saying that's not true of every offense at some point, but even when Cutler does manage to move the ball, it's never in rhythm. It's always 1 yard, 1 yard, 18 yards. That's fine if you can sustain it, but it doesn't work against good defenses. When you get yourself in long yardage situations, it's hard to maintain drives, and he starts forcing the ball, which leads to turnovers. I'm not saying McCown is the best ever, but when he's in, he does keep things in rhythm. He hits guys quickly, giving them the opportunity for YAC. He hits guys in stride on swing passes. He doesn't wait too long to get rid of the ball. He leads guys on the inside breaking routes.

Does anyone else see this, or do I have some type of bias I'm not realizing?


You're totally correct. I think Cutler leads the league in passing yards through the air vs YAC.


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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:33 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Among the best in the 4th quarter is what I was saying.
Got it.

What bearing does 4th quarter statistics have on his whole body of work? What I'm getting at is that many times, when someone puts down Cutler, his 4th quarter statistics are used as a counterargument. I am trying to figure out what the relevance is. Am I wrong on my thoughts on Cutler because he's good in a quarter of the game?

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Last edited by Brick on Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:35 pm 
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He's got a near 100 QB rating in the first quarter too. Low 70s for 2-3.


Last edited by Bucky Chris on Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:36 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Among the best in the 4th quarter is what I was saying.
Got it.

What bearing does 4th quarter statistics have on his who body of work? What I'm getting at is that many times, when someone puts down Cutler, his 4th quarter statistics are used as a counterargument. I am trying to figure out what the relevance is. Am I wrong on my thoughts on Cutler because he's good in a quarter of the game?


I don't know. I wasn't trying to convince you of anything. I was stating my opinion on what I think is a valuable trait. I like having a QB that is effective in important, late-game situations.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:37 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
I don't know. I wasn't trying to convince you of anything. I was stating my opinion on what I think is a valuable trait. I like having a QB that is effective in important, late-game situations.
That is what I was trying to figure out. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:39 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
I think it shows that he's among the best which seems fair.
Now we are getting somewhere.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Does anybody have any evidence that he is not?
Pretty much every statistic that covers all four quarters.


Among the best in the 4th quarter is what I was saying.

So is it sustainable? If it is, he just learned how to be clutch in the past year and a half? I guess that's possible, Im just trying to figure out if that's the conclusion you are reaching.

And then we must also acknowledge that he is one of the worst QBs in the NFL in the 2nd and 3rd quarters, which also wasn't always the case.

So in the past 1.5 seasons he learned how to be incredible clutch while simultaneously forgetting to be even minimally productive in the 2nd/3rd quarters. Or it's not a fair representation based on randomness, small sample size, and external factors. Im going to go with the latter because it sounds much more plausible.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:43 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ok, so Cutler is good at times. Glad we can move on.


If by "good at times" you mean "the best in the NFL during the most important time of the game" then, yes, we can move on.

Maybe you don't think that statistic is a fair representation. That's fine.

Do you think it's a fair representation?
So are you saying we should take out his two or three worst throws of the game?

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:44 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
I think it shows that he's among the best which seems fair.
Now we are getting somewhere.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Does anybody have any evidence that he is not?
Pretty much every statistic that covers all four quarters.


Among the best in the 4th quarter is what I was saying.

So is it sustainable? If it is, he just learned how to be clutch in the past year and a half? I guess that's possible, Im just trying to figure out if that's the conclusion you are reaching.

And then we must also acknowledge that he is one of the worst QBs in the NFL in the 2nd and 3rd quarters, which also wasn't always the case.

So in the past 1.5 seasons he learned how to be incredible clutch while simultaneously forgetting to be even minimally productive in the 2nd/3rd quarters. Or it's not a fair representation based on randomness, small sample size, and external factors. Im going to go with the latter because it sounds much more plausible.


I look at the stat along with the 20 game-winning drives in his career. I feel OK about thinking he's very good in the 4th quarter.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:45 pm 
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You know what is going to happen now. Cutler is going to throw 3 fourth quarter interceptions on Sunday night.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:46 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
You know what is going to happen now. Cutler is going to throw 3 fourth quarter interceptions on Sunday night.


I'm hoping that our constant bashing of him causes him to throw for 5 TD's a game.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:48 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:

I look at the stat along with the 20 game-winning drives in his career. I feel OK about thinking he's very good in the 4th quarter.



Tony Romo also has 20 such drives(or damn close) in his career, iirc.


His career splits by quarter are all over the map. I don't see why somebody would draw conclusions from them, unless they happen to believe small sample sizes are sustainable more often than not. But if they believed that, they would be in the Josh McCown camp.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:49 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
You know what is going to happen now. Cutler is going to throw 3 fourth quarter interceptions on Sunday night.
Hopefully.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:51 pm 
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The threads here on the Bears are exponentially greater than the crap on something like espn. Thank you, Al Gore!

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:03 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
You know what is going to happen now. Cutler is going to throw 3 fourth quarter interceptions on Sunday night.
Hopefully.

So you want the Bears to lose?

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:08 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
You know what is going to happen now. Cutler is going to throw 3 fourth quarter interceptions on Sunday night.
Hopefully.

So you want the Bears to lose?
That's the board meme.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears Game 14/16
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:11 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
You know what is going to happen now. Cutler is going to throw 3 fourth quarter interceptions on Sunday night.
Hopefully.
So you want the Bears to lose?
#Truth

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