Considering only the living -

During the regular season - Billy Beane.
Postseason - Derek Jeter.

Including the dead -

John McGraw

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I think Girardi's done the bat the pitcher 8th thing as well.

Players:
Rose, Jeter

Managers:
La Russa, Herzog

_________________

A.J. Pierzynski

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Bill Veeck

_________________

me

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Probably Larussa or JORR.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Dont listen to JORR's Sox tinted propaganda.

Did Fregosi bring up this question before, during, or after his stroke?

Me? Why thank you.

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Being a sox fan is only one of several reasons I would list him. He also seems to be one of the few remaining baseball fans in the world who realizes winning is a pitcher's job.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

A starting pitcher's job, yes.

But its not the only stat or the best one to judge pitching. That would be WHIP.

But I see he's already gotten you

If an offense doesn't score any runs, a perfect game would still end up being a loss, so that "logic' only goes so far.

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Impossible to lose a perfect game.

I'm going to go lay down in the middle of the road for a while.

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Yeah he has. You know I'm not a big baseball guy, and that's an understatement, but I enjoy the W-L/saber debates on here and I usually end up thinking JORR makes the best points in those.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Best news I've heard all day.

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

You can be perfect thru 9 innings and the team can still lose though

That's essentially what I was thinking but didn't say it close to correctly at all.

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

The point you were making was fairly obvious nonetheless.

JORR takes a kernel of a good idea and goes to absurd extremes with it.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

I love JORR's passion for the game and he is entertaining as hell in the discussions about wins but he comes across as thinking the stat is the be-all and end-all on measuring how good a starting pitcher is...I care not to put so much stock into a single stat when analyzing a player.

That being said, his arguments on the importance of the win pale in comparison to Brian Kenny's obsessive crusade against it...so he's got that going for him.

Wouldn't really say it's the be all-end all, I just think if we're looking at a starting pitcher's career, W/L record tells us more than any other single statistic. Of course, Aaron Sele is the exception that proves the rule.

When I was growing up, Gene Mauch was the guy who seemed to be the consensus choice as the "greatest baseball mind". But he had something like an eight game lead with six left to play in Philadelphia in 1964 and somehow ended up getting beat. He pitched Short and Bunning every other day. Last year I actually heard that dumbass Hawk tell Stone that Mauch could look at a standard box score and tell you where each guy hit the ball. When Stone asked how he could do that, Hawk said something like, "I dunno, Stoney, he just could."

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Isn't 13 scoreless better than 12.1 with a run allowed?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

It's baseball season, bitches!

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

You beat me to it!

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don