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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:10 pm 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
I don't know Hawgaroo. I think Bailey is a pretty good bet going forward. He's only 27 years old and he's getting better. The cost of good starting pitching is really really really high. Hell the cost for bad starting pitching is really high.

Well in a few years hopefully one of us remembers to come back to this thread and be proven right or wrong.


RPB I know, I just don't like the contract at all.

Oh, I dont like it either. Just supplying some info.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:11 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
I don't know Hawgaroo. I think Bailey is a pretty good bet going forward. He's only 27 years old and he's getting better. The cost of good starting pitching is really really really high. Hell the cost for bad starting pitching is really high.

Well in a few years hopefully one of us remembers to come back to this thread and be proven right or wrong.


RPB I know, I just don't like the contract at all.

Oh, I dont like it either. Just supplying some info.

Well dammit, just agree with me and move on then.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:21 pm 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
I don't know Hawgaroo. I think Bailey is a pretty good bet going forward. He's only 27 years old and he's getting better. The cost of good starting pitching is really really really high. Hell the cost for bad starting pitching is really high.

Well in a few years hopefully one of us remembers to come back to this thread and be proven right or wrong.


RPB I know, I just don't like the contract at all.

Oh, I dont like it either. Just supplying some info.

Well dammit, just agree with me and move on then.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:22 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Its too much money but he's a good pitcher.

This.

I have no doubts on his talent, but if you are paying him that kind of money, you are banking on him improving quite a bit and becoming an ace level talent.

If he does that, it ends up being a great (bordering on amazing) deal, but if he doesn't, you just overpaid to lock up your third starter for 6 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:24 pm 
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lipidquadcab wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Its too much money but he's a good pitcher.

This.

I have no doubts on his talent, but if you are paying him that kind of money, you are banking on him improving quite a bit and becoming an ace level talent.

or you're banking on 17 million per being about average in a couple years


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:27 pm 
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Hawger, what do you want the Brewers to do with Gallardo going forward? They hold a $13M option for 2015.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:29 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
lipidquadcab wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Its too much money but he's a good pitcher.

This.

I have no doubts on his talent, but if you are paying him that kind of money, you are banking on him improving quite a bit and becoming an ace level talent.

or you're banking on 17 million per being about average in a couple years

If 17 million becomes the average for a third starter, we'd be looking at payrolls well north of 200 million for the average team, no? That's just insane.

Note: not saying it won't happen...just pointing out how utterly absurd the money being thrown at pitching has gotten.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:31 pm 
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Keyser Soze wrote:
Hawger, what do you want the Brewers to do with Gallardo going forward? They hold a $13M option for 2015.

I don't see anyway they can pay him, especially if he has a good year this year. I am ok with them bringing him back next year, especially if the team has a chance. Even if you don't trade him, you will get a draft pick for him that should be pretty good.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:45 pm 
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If they could would you want the Brewers to offer Gallardo an extension like the one the Reds gave to Bailey?


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:57 pm 
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Keyser Soze wrote:
If they could would you want the Brewers to offer Gallardo an extension like the one the Reds gave to Bailey?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:05 pm 
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Keyser Soze wrote:
The cost of good starting pitching is really really really high. Hell the cost for bad starting pitching is really high.
Salary cap and salary floor is needed very soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:47 pm 
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makes you think that maybe drafting pitchers is the way to go

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:51 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
makes you think that maybe drafting pitchers is the way to go

Absolutely. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:39 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
makes you think that maybe drafting pitchers is the way to go

Yep. Grow the arms buy the bats.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:54 am 
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The Orioles have reached an agreement with Nelson Cruz on a 1yr/$8M contract.

That's a far cry from the 4yr/$52M his partner in juice Jhonny Peralta got from the Cardinals. Despite the fact that they lose their 2nd round pick this is a real good deal for the Orioles who are obviously in win-now mode. The deal gives Cruz a chance to re-establish his value after foolishly turning down the $14.1M qualifying offer. The Rangers will receive a supplemantal first round draft pick.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:52 pm 
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Keyser Soze wrote:
The Orioles have reached an agreement with Nelson Cruz on a 1yr/$8M contract.

That's a far cry from the 4yr/$52M his partner in juice Jhonny Peralta got from the Cardinals. Despite the fact that they lose their 2nd round pick this is a real good deal for the Orioles who are obviously in win-now mode. The deal gives Cruz a chance to re-establish his value after foolishly turning down the $14.1M qualifying offer. The Rangers will receive a supplemantal first round draft pick.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:13 pm 
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Jaime Garcia isn't feeling the greatest...again... :?

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/stl/cardinals-left-hander-jaime-garcia-to-undergo-mri-on-shoulder?ymd=20140222&content_id=68130204&vkey=news_stl

But hey, at least there is depth at that position...

That means an eight-man competition for five starting spots has, for the time being, been reduced to seven.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:12 pm 
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I don't really expect Jaime to ever be an effective MLB starter again. Give the shoulder a couple years off, he might be able to come back as a LOOGY.

He had a great run :salut:

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:14 pm 
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Apologist wrote:
I don't really expect Jaime to ever be an effective MLB starter again. Give the shoulder a couple years off, he might be able to come back as a LOOGY.

He had a great run :salut:

His performance in Game 2 of the 2011 WS was the stuff of legend...


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:48 pm 
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The Yankees extend Brett Gardner ,4 years 52 million. Wow, just fucking wow.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:07 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
The cost of good starting pitching is really really really high. Hell the cost for bad starting pitching is really high.
Salary cap and salary floor is needed very soon.

No way. Leave that equality stuff to the communists running the NFL.


Seriously, no cap or floor is needed.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:45 am 
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Yes it is. They are both needed now more than ever.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:53 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Yes it is. They are both needed now more than ever.


Nope. A floor would be okay. A cap is unnecessary. Why are you concerned about how billionsires spend their money anyway?

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:03 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Yes it is. They are both needed now more than ever.

This will never happen, as it would require franchises to fully disclose all of their revenue and expenditures. Don't see that happening anytime soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:15 am 
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cap sucks. You want this like the NBA?

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:31 am 
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No cap.

Tweak the luxury tax/draft pick penalties instead. Set a luxury threshold and punish those teams over it by taking away picks...lots of em. The yankees and dodgers would not have picks in the first 10 rounds....and they would lose the slot money for those 10 rounds so they couldnt sign someone way over slot in the 11th round. Other teams may lose the first 2..3..4 rounds or however it shakes out on paper.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:49 pm 
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Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
No cap.

Tweak the luxury tax/draft pick penalties instead. Set a luxury threshold and punish those teams over it by taking away picks...lots of em. The yankees and dodgers would not have picks in the first 10 rounds....and they would lose the slot money for those 10 rounds so they couldnt sign someone way over slot in the 11th round. Other teams may lose the first 2..3..4 rounds or however it shakes out on paper.

I was about to say if you are going to put in a salary cap make it a hard cap, because this whole luxury tax bullshit isn't going to dissuade anyone from spending more money, since that's the very thing the cap is supposed to be preventing.

But your idea of taking away draft picks...I like it.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:13 am 
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Cards just gave Matt Carpenter an extension...locked up until 2019 with an option for 2020...6 yrs/52 million...

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10572804/matt-carpenter-st-louis-cardinals-signs-contract-extension

If he keeps playing at the level he's played thus far, that is huge value...even if he regresses a bit, I'd still say it's a decent contract...only way this fails is if he completely shits the bed.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:19 am 
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lipidquadcab wrote:
Cards just gave Matt Carpenter an extension...locked up until 2019 with an option for 2020...6 yrs/52 million...

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10572804/matt-carpenter-st-louis-cardinals-signs-contract-extension

If he keeps playing at the level he's played thus far, that is huge value...even if he regresses a bit, I'd still say it's a decent contract...only way this fails is if he completely shits the bed.


I like it. Love his versatility.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove- 2014
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:26 am 
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redskingreg wrote:
lipidquadcab wrote:
Cards just gave Matt Carpenter an extension...locked up until 2019 with an option for 2020...6 yrs/52 million...

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10572804/matt-carpenter-st-louis-cardinals-signs-contract-extension

If he keeps playing at the level he's played thus far, that is huge value...even if he regresses a bit, I'd still say it's a decent contract...only way this fails is if he completely shits the bed.


I like it. Love his versatility.

Yup...if (I'm more thinking when) the Kolten Wong experience at 2nd base doesn't pan out, you can move him back there, as he proved himself adequate at that position.

I hate to get to complementary, but how about the prescience of the front office to NOT give this kind of deal to Freese a few years ago? It would have been so easy for them to lock him up like this...the 2011 postseason, play as well as he did in the first half of 2012 and make the All Star team.

Of course, Carp could have the same decline and then I'll have to eat crow.


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