Yeah, that 3 he hit at the end of game 6 to stave off elimination was clutch.

Karl Malone

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GO BEARS!!!

This is true. If the Bulls convince Melo to sign on and he really wants to win then he will try his hardest to do so. If not then he didn't. Blowing another season to wait for Love is dumb. same damn thing.

As for Lebron last year "leading" and "taking" them to the ring it is crap. He set himself up with a great team. Did he play his mos awesomeness sure. Leading nope. He still defers to Wade IMHO as far as team leadership.

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Can't even be the worst player on a championship team.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I can't recall any other star that always seemed to choke at the most important moment of the game. Whether it be missed free throw or turnovers he found ways to fail.

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Chris Webber. But he was at least usually self aware enough to pass to Bibby before fucking up.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Next thing you guys are going to tell me is Clyde Drexler or Gary Payton couldn't "lead" their teams. Do you have any idea how many greats could not "lead" their teams past MJ in the 90's. That Barkley was a fucking loser.

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Elections have consequences.

But that Robert Horry led the shit of of basketball.

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Elections have consequences.

I really, really hate the Robert Horry Strawman. It needs to be burned alive and forgotten about. It never has any relevance to the topic.

Gary Payton and Charles never shrunk from the moment. Malone did. Clyde actually did too to a degree. This is stuff you notice when you watch the games.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

It isn't whether you missed a shot or came up lame on a free throw. I am saying this whole "lead" thing is full of shit. Say what you want. It is more of a team game than Bernsie wants you to think. No Scottie no six. Ewing sucked no ring as he didn't "lead". Bird without his guys? Magic might be fucking Steve Nash without Kareem, Worthy and Wilkes?

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It's definitely a team game. That doesn't make leadership obsolete, but rather makes it necessary. It's extremely difficult to win when your best player is not a leader. Having talented guys around you isn't enough most of the time.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Chicken and egg. The Bulls win and MJ is a great leader. The Bulls only win 3 out of 6 and all we hear is how MJ is a jagoff in practice over beating the shit out of his teammates and demoralizing them. You decide.

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I've already decided. You can usually tell by watching them. And I don't just go by number of titles. I think Nash is a great leader. Barkley was too. Shaq wasn't. LeBron is. Dwight Howard isn't. Noah is.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Disagree on Lebron but ok fine.

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I'm almost certain that everybody on the team loves playing with him, and he's had some of the best games in his career on really big stages the past couple years. Game 6 in Boston, Game 5 or 6(can't remember right now) in Indy, etc. It would be hard not to watch those performances and be anything but inspired. Something changed with him after that Mavs series. Besides the 48 he dropped on Detroit in '07 and the back and forth battle he had with Pierce in Game 7 of '08 he had almost always hid in big moments. He doesnt anymore.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

He choked in Game 6 of the Finals and looked like the guy in Boston a few years earlier but he was huge in Game 7 though.

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GO BEARS!!!

I don't know about LeBron's leadership skills, but it does seem like he wins the MVP just about every year. Having said that he also stacked the deck with Wade and Bosh. LeBron does have problems with consistency at times. Every so often he has a game or two where he gets shut down in the playoffs or it looks like he quit like when the Cavs would lose to the Celtics.

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To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Agreed that LeBron is a beast and a leader. Melo is just a scorer. Can't see how the Bulls do what it takes (trading talent) to get their payroll in line with the new CBA to get him.

Plus I see Melo as just your typical greedy athlete who will take every penny and stay in NYC.

Fuck him.

What? Wasn't Game. 6 when he lost his headband and then went nuts on the Spurs? Maybe I'm misremembering, but I'm pretty sure he was great in that game. He did have a couple poor games in the series, but I still think the Spurs were a better team and they were at least Miami's equal. That wasn't supposed to be an easy series for Miami to win.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I still think you guys confuse being a great leader and having a great game or three. Yukl's taxonomy of leadership spells out the different types of leadership. On the Miami Heat I don't count James as the main one. Goodnight for me eastern time.

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If Kawhi Leonard hits that free throw in game 6 we are talking about LeBron's failure as a leader.

_________________
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

No we aren't. And we aren't if Ray misses that 3. The non-ignorant among us are talking about the better team winning the title, which usually happens.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

My post was worded to respond to FF's point about Melo being able to get a team to the playoffs, as opposed to someone like Love. Despite his appearances, the overall record for Melo is disappointing. Most troubling is the Knicks sucking the past two years despite making Melo the man and building the team around him. Melo got his wish by forcing a move to NYK, he plays in the worst conference ever, so why does his team suck so bad? I'll take Melo as a no 2 to a healthy Rose, but not as the leading man. He's had his chances as the man in two cities, I don't know why a third reset would work, especially at 30 for him.



I don't think it's fair to compare Melo and Love like that, especially since Love is younger and played for one of the worst GMs in recent history (Kahn). I just don't see what is so appealing about Melo at this point in his career to trust him with the keys to the franchise. As Robin I'm all in, but not necessarily as Batman. Plus he's 30 or will be 30 this year, so at most you get 1-2 years of max return on your investment before his body deteriorates. Not so appealing imo.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Different ways to take that question. If I'm a gm drafting all eligible players, taking age into consideration, then I'd go with several before Melo, including:

Love
Griffin
KD
Irving
George
Westbrook
LBJ

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

You know damn well the pacers should have beat em, the Spurs had em beat. the series should have been over in 6 with spurs champs.

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We can't look at "should have's" though. They make us feel better but reality is Pops and Ginobili choked.

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GO BEARS!!!

Of those players, which of them are available in trade or free agency for the Bulls?

_________________
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

That doesn't legitimize acquiring Melo just because he's available. Again I'm cool with Melo, just not as the guy. It'd be different if he was suffering KG style in the mid 2000s...putting impoverished teams on his back year after year and enjoying regular season success and winning a couple series in the playoffs, but this is a guy who can't even qualify for the playoffs in the eastern conference. NYK is a joke, and he's the leader of that joke of a team, so questions have to be asked.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

I don't think it's Melo's fault that the Knicks are bad. He is the best player the Bulls can get short of LeBron or landing a player in the draft or if Mirotic is a top player.

It's really too bad the Bulls couldn't have landed James Harden. OKC is probably wishing they traded Westbrook.

_________________
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”