There shouldn't be scholarship players at all. Let students play sports if they want to. Real student-athletes. Not faux professionals working for less than minimum wage.

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Don't take it personally.

Northwestern could become the force in B1G recruiting since this ruling only covers NW as a private school. State funded colleges don't fall under this particular ruling, I don't think.

MLB has a billion dollar TV contract, and they are the ones paying those salaries too. Many of those teams are also extremely profitable too.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

How did Kain Coulter get an internship at Goldman Sachs if he wasn't a real student-athlete?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The NBDL has these salary tiers: $25,500, $19,000 and $13,000. It does include some type of housing and insurance benefits too.

That means that if they implemented a $2,000 - $3,000 a month increase in the total cost of living for athletes, they would get $24,000 to $36,000 a year + housing + food + whatever value you give to a college education.

There is just no reason to believe that the value of all but a small percentage of these players even reaches that level. If it did, then we'd have minor league professional football and basketball all over the place. The business model would be simple. Offer the top high school players $200,000 a year for 5 years, and then send them to teams in Manhattan, KS and Boise, ID and make huge money. The tv contracts would quickly follow.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

This is fucking stupid. If the players end up unionizing, I'm done with my meager donations. They can count me out. Apparently I'm not the only one who feels this way.

P.S. Anyone want a free Kain Colter #2 jersey?

He was a student who managed to succeed despite the burden of also being a low paid professional athlete. Most guys can't do that. And most don't.

I know you guys like college sports, but why are you so opposed to a man earning what he's really worth? Every single person in college athletics is doing whatever is best for himself with total disregard for everything else from tradition and academics to people, but you reserve your outrage for the kids (most of whom are from poor backgrounds) who are actually doing all the work. Spiral Revolutions, boys, spiral revolutions.

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Don't take it personally.

Nobody watches the NBDL. College basketball is not a minor league. You're starting to sound like dan bernstein.

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Don't take it personally.

Burden? You really think he is where he is at right now without football? He even said he didn't think he would have gotten into Northwestern without football.
They are free to earn what they are really worth. Who is stopping them? Playing college football is an option.

When I was that age, I wanted to get a job. The place I applied to had a set pay scale for the seasonal workers who were almost all high school/college kids. My choice was either to accept it or find something that paid better. That is all I am proposing. $36,000 a year + virtually all other living expenses is a really good deal for almost all of these players. Maybe Johnny Football is "underpaid" and he is free to find someone who will give him millions of dollars at the age of 19.

These kids don't have the value you say. If they did, then there would be someone out there willing to pay them for it. There are literally people lining up at colleges all around the country to play for free.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

There is a reason why no one watches the NBDL but people watch college sports.

I'm using pro minor leagues as a reference point because that shows the alternative and helps set the market.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It's hard to discuss something like this with you because you seem to have so much trouble seeing beyond the status quo.

If you really think Dr. Ken and I are going to be turning in to watch Joe Bertrand and John Ekey if they're wearing an NBDL uniform, you're out of your fucking mind. Now, you might think that statement supports your argument rather than taking it apart, but the fact of the matter is NCAA basketball is a self-contained unit with its own fanbase. It's not a minor league and it shouldn't be compared to one. Of course, the NBA uses it as a defacto minor league. And why not? It doesn't cost them anything.

Sure, I'll miss college hoops if they're gone. But I already miss the four corners offense and a Big Ten that has ten teams in it.

Northwestern didn't give Kain Colter an education because its Board of Directors is a bunch of nice guys, you know.

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Don't take it personally.

Just because I don't think the last guy on the bench on Mercer deserves $200,000 a year doesn't mean that I can't see beyond the status quo. What I am proposing would be a pretty major reform too.
EXACTLY! This is why I say that besides a small portion, the players don't matter. Most of those players end up becoming rich. Here is a quick anecdote. Drew Brees is by far the biggest draw in modern Purdue athletics. Only Glenn Robinson compares. Drew Brees has donated millions back to the university and athletic department. If there was anyone who should resent how he was "taken advantage of" it is him. For some reason, he is the opposite. He loves the university more than I do. Many former players who went onto NFL and NBA careers feel the exact same way.

Now, I use that primarily to highlight the fact that it is the university that matters. You basically said it too.
No one says they did. It's just hard to claim he wasn't a student athlete when everything indicates he was. Find a guy who can barely read, not a guy who will probably end up working on Wall Street because of his college choice.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Did anyone watch the Real Sports segment on college athletes this week? Talking about schools like North Carolina, Memphis, Oklahoma and Michigan putting at least half of their athletes into "General Studies" majors that are completely useless. One of the Memphis kids couldn't even read.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

That could be the most interesting thing that comes out of this. The NCAA may need to act like the NFL does with concussions, and go overboard in proving they care about academics.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Earlier this week dumbass David Haugh wrote a column about the ramifications of the players' right to Unionize. As if those were reasons why these steps should not have been taken. He was pretty much blaming the players for taking such a radical approach. This is what the NCAA and their policy hath wrought. The players are the backbone of the system. Eventually, they were going to see coaches making millions while they got scholarships, they were going to notice the huge TV contracts and how they were punished for selling an autograph, they were going to see coaches bouncing all over with no repercussions while they were penalized for a transfer, they were going to recognize that everyone was getting fat except them. And they were going to do something about it. And now they have. And the natural reaction from the powers that be is to say, "Well, you didn't have to do that. We'll treat you better!" But the only reason they're saying that is because they're being forced to say it.

It's no different than any other management/worker exchange in a pseudo-capitalist society. Amazon and Walmart will abuse their workers until the workers refuse to be abused. We've come to take the results that have been achieved by Unions for granted in a similar way to how we take the results of vaccines for granted.

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Don't take it personally.

Of course they will drive change. It will be interesting to see if it is change that helps or hurts the players.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't think it could possibly hurt the players. But what it will likely do is radically remake the system. I doubt we will recognize college sports in 20 years. The NFL and NBA may be forced to create/expand their minor leagues.

Most of the people who are objecting so strenuously to this are those who have a vested interest and are benefiting from the status quo or those who just enjoy watching college sports on television, don't want them to change, and don't give it any thought beyond that. and I'm not suggesting those aren't legitimate viewpoints. Man is a selfish creature. I just got done running in a pair of Nikes made by slave labor. I'm glad they didn't cost more than they did. And it's real easy for me not to think of a Chinese child working on that shit. But if I really start to examine my actions and the ways of the world, I can't really feel too great about myself- or about man in general.

It's funny the way we think. We all act as if the enslavement of millions of black Americans was horrific, which of course it was, but we do so on our way to buy cheap goods made in foreign countries by slave labor. We see an old time medicine show in an old movie and laugh at the naivete of people in past generations, while we send in our orders for Garcinia Cambogia, acai berries, and Oxyclean.

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Don't take it personally.

It most certainly could. It is a legitimate possibility that college football disappears. College basketball probably survives because it is cheaper with less risk. Then what happens to the players, they become the equivalent of AAA baseball players. A few get rich. Most get barely enough to live on.
You keep saying this. I keep responding to it showing just how wrong it is. You then say it again. Do you not understand that that I pretty much agree with the reforms suggested, and take it a step further by wanting a $2,000-$3,000 a month increase in the scholarship? Stop saying we want to keep the status quo. The Big Ten for years would have loved to increase scholarship amounts.
Here we go. Let's mention slavery without actually saying it is slavery.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Then what happens to the players? They either get real jobs or they actually go to real classes and play football for their own pleasure like a whole lot of other people.



I keep saying it because it's true. Why are you so interested in college football? How does it really affect you? The Big Ten is a willing participant in the NCAA. They could run their own show with their own rules if they really wanted to. They've been perfectly satisfied with the status quo.



I don't care what you want to call it. It's a management/worker relationship like any other. Management tries to get as much as possible from the workers while paying as little as possible. The only thing that ever changes that arrangement is management being forced to change. It's usually messy and often violent.

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Don't take it personally.

That is true, and that is worse than what they have now. That is why they don't go get real jobs now.
I'm not sure that is true. It's just that there are significant challenges to breaking away from the NCAA both legally and logistically. The NCAA probably will fall one day, which is fine with me, and I assume the Big Ten.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Here is how things could be bad for the players.
1) Football is dropped. Go find work somewhere else or hope that minor league football takes off(it won't).
2) Scholarships are dropped. Pay your own way to school if you want to play.
3) The "non-revenue" sports are dropped to the level of that complies with Title IX. Good for football players, alright for basketball players, bad for everyone else.
4) Universities call their bluff and say that the players are employees, and therefore have no requirement of being accepted or enrolled as a student. So, they sign the players to contracts coming out of high school, paying them $20 an hour for four years, and then at the end of it the player is either in the NFL/NBA or is a 22 year old kid with a high school education who hasn't studied anything but football for four years.

Now, maybe instead they'll start paying the 12th man on Mercer $200,000 a year instead.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't think that a kid has some right to free college just because he's a good football player. The only reason he is offered such a thing is because he is making money for others. We don't have to pretend things are something they're not. There is little doubt that in the major conferences these guys are athletes first and the "student" part only comes in to keep them eligible and keep the NCAA off the school's ass.

And you know far more about the economics of college athletics than I do, but one thing you and I both know is that the big football programs have voracious appetites for cash. So yeah, a few big programs turn a profit. But those big programs have big coaches who demand more resources and eat up more and more of that money. If we really want to be honest, sports at such a level are something that don't belong on a college campus at all. And even if you disagree with that, I don't see how anyone could disagree that the whole thing has gotten out of hand when college coaches have more power than college presidents.

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Don't take it personally.

Saw it. Shameful for all who are involved. Yet, I think deep down insider we all know that is happening.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Kain freaking Coulter might go down in history as the spokesman for the group who killed the golden goose. Unionizing students & introducing the Teamsters to NCAA sports & schools will have negative consequences on college athletics.
These kids today...

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

I'm saying that is a good deal for the players though. If the student part of it was more important, then Kain Coulter isn't at Northwestern, and he isn't working his way towards a Wall Street career. The setup of college sports is good for just about everyone. There are some players who have more value than they are compensated for, and most have less value than they are compensated for. This is why a minor league system has not, and will not take off for either football or basketball unless the colleges literally drop the sports.
Coaching salaries are pretty out of control. Now, there are somewhat weak justifications for it, especially at places like Alabama and Texas, but hopefully that changes. Now, imagine you extend that to the players too with an uncapped pay scale. You will have schools or conferences dropping out because there is no benefit.

That is why I love the idea of giving scholarship players an extra $2,000 to $3,000 a month. It's sustainable. It allows the other sports to exist. It keeps the separation between pro and college. If Cam Newton can get a better deal doing something else, then go for it.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The obvious reason that a minor league system hasn't taken off in those sports is that one is not needed. There is already a defacto system in place and it doesn't have to be funded by the NBA or NFL. I think it's pretty obvious that our university system isn't there to run minor leagues for professional sports.

And Kain Colter is an exceptional guy who attended what was, until very recently, an exceptional school when it came to athletics. Although Northwestern is a long time member of the Big Ten, it has traditionally had more in common with the Ivy League or Division III schools when it came to athletics. I mean, NU has a lot more in common with Princeton than it does with Ohio State or Michigan State. It's always been a misfit in the Big Ten. Some of the alums got a little taste of winning football under sleazy Barnett and it became more of a priority than it previously had been. And now they're blighting the lakefront with giant facilities designed to produce defensive ends rather than astronomers. And Chicago's Big Ten coach has an inordinate amount of power. I'm sure when Fitz decides he wants his boys to practice outside on the landfill, Kelly Amonte will be humping her champions over to Floyd Long Field.

At one time what you're saying was absolutely correct. Football and basketball did give young men opportunities they would not have otherwise had and many of them made the most of it. But money corrupts everything. At some point big time college athletics crossed the Rubicon and the original mission was forgotten. Special academic programs were created to do nothing more than give players an easy ride to do what they were really brought in for. We can't really pretend a kid is on scholarship for the kid's benefit. And to me, that's the sticking point. Once the scholarship stopped being for the benefit of the kid and began being for the benefit of CBS and Urban Meyer, the system needed to be radically altered. And that didn't happen over night. It was a process. A guy like Bo Schembechler began his career as an educator and ended it as the CEO of a football machine. Somewhere it all just went wrong.

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Don't take it personally.