Got some quality time in the cab from Ohare today, so when I asked if Mr. Nigeria had AC, he told me it was nice out and he was using the windows today!

But, instead of WGN news, I asked for a 670er and despite me being the shitty passenger, he switched.

Got Danny and Terry ripping into Hawk and his effect on the attendance and how this guy is the face of the Sox broadcasts. Hmmmm...almost if he was reading one of my posts verbatim. Abbatcola jumped in and specifically talked about a result is a lack of attendance and how Hawk just paints a negative picture about everything, except some fond memories he had of players most people never heard of.

Bernstein ended the hour long rant with a "You are a professional baseball team and you need to take your broadcast back from a raving lunatic"

While I agree with them, none of this is new, except for the fact that WSCR hosts finally said it in detail.

Hmmmm? Is someone trying to get out of a broadcast deal that isnt making them very much money??? Because I am 100% sure Uncle Jerry will be told about this. 100%

Oh and I tipped the asshole 1$ for allowing me to get out of the Cab to get my own bag, but he wanted his cash before he allowed me to get my bag.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

I agree that Hawk is bad, but entertaining. I doubt he has any impact on attendance. If I recall, most of the Sox fans here like Hawk. We had a thread about it.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

You just identified the issue. lol

The people that think he is worth listening to, entertaining etc are like hawk and thus dont go.

I am not saying the park gets filled all of a sudden, but they have a really bad issue on the S side with Season tickets about to become the 3rd lowest in front of Miami and TB. They were 5th to last before this year, with Kc being behind them and I can see Kc getting a boost.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

I enjoy a Hawk broadcast when they're losing, like right now.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Truth be told I do enjoy hawk during a solid losing streak. Fucking priceless.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I like Hawk like a old sweater on a winter day. Bernsie is right in the sense that if the Sox caught lightning in a bottle like a Harry he could make the Sox pop. Won't happen.

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Elections have consequences.

Everyone likes seeing a car accident, you just dont want it happening to you. So nothing he ever does says "Man I gotta go out there and have me some bacon on a stick"

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

I don't think announcers have any effect of attendance at all. None.
No way hawk brings em in or drives em away.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

IDK Darko.... If you had a Uecker type selling like a minor league team does it could. Make it a thing.

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Elections have consequences.

Then you would be wrong, but thats OK

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Is there some evidence or statistics to support your claim?
I just never met anyone that ever considered who the broadcast team is when deciding whether to buy tickets.
Sox fans like hawk. Why would he be driving them away.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Aside from BF I am not saying Hawk keeps existing fans away. I am saying some sort of new one makes new fans and us existing still come?

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Elections have consequences.

Your announcers are your top salespeople. Every team in sports will admit it. You need a good product to sell, but these guys are your salespeople.

They are 100% part of the salesteam. They promote events, they promote ticket sales and they interact with advertisers.

do I have a stat for you? No. However, i feel very confident that you could ask every person on every sports team that these are your top salespeople.

The remaining Sox fans claim they like Hawk, or is misery loves company?

In the Sox case I would think the goal is not to maintain the satus quo but to dratsically improve upon it.

I can tell you one person that doesnt think Hawk does a good job of selling or broadcasting and he sits right next to Hawk.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

The day Hawk hangs it up, or himself, I won't shed a tear. This is not news.

That said, the fact he's the lead announcer would in no way, shape, or form prevent me from attending a Sox game. I guess I don't quite see the correlation. Maybe that's because I'm moreso on the outside looking in, so to speak; I still can't see not going to any game because of whoever is the media broadcaster on tv or radio of a given team.

Any reason to shit on Hawk I'm almost certainly okay with ... but to me the idea that he in any way affects attendance just doesn't hold water.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Many of you are not looking at this in the correct light. Hawk doesnt keep people away. It's that he doesnt bring anyone in.

Would you have SHAQ sell womens clothing? He might not stop anyone from buying clothes at the limited but he sure isnt bringing anyone in.

If you like , tolerate or dodnt care about Hawk, thats fine.

If you think he has some upside in terms of bringing in new veiwers, selling tickets, or promoting the product, I think you would be in the small minority.

Some will say thats not his job, but it is.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

If that's all true, why does Jerry still have him around? You know he's a pretty shrewd businessman. Does he not understand that hawk could be costing him money? Why wouldn't he do something about it?

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Jerry LOVES him and Farmer. The broadcasts are for Jerry. They are going nowhere.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Remember Jerry canned Hawk as GM and still kept the guy around.

See the pattern in Jerrys teams. Many guys arent around because they are good at their jobs, they are around because Jerry likes them.

Venturas amazing wit made him manager!

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

For all of this complaining about Hawk, show me the first broadcaster under the age of 70 that actually & unequivocally is credited toward developing or enhancing a fan base/season ticket holder#/regular season attendance for a team that is inarguably mediocre since 2006-7?

The great Len Kasper does nothing for attendance, despite his cutesy band with the late Bob Brenly. But he makes Bernstein feel good about his own immodest abilities so he has that going for him.

And don't give me the Steve Stone crap. The next interesting thought out of that sanctimonious and hard on the ears guy will be his first since the Dusty Baker days.

KC's broadcasters are horrid, but there's been a discussion here about a potential bump in season tix.

Tampa? Baltimore? Cleveland? Texas?

Cincy/Milwaukee (old farts that don't bow at the dull altar of numbers )

This entire thread is complete BS.

And needs to be pruned.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I think winning puts butts in seats.
2003 saw a miserable broadcaster in that God awful chip Carey. Christ he was so Damn bad. But attendance went up. Was it because they were winning or because of the bland gasoline flavor of Carey.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

As written, this is a more easily defended position than what I believe most of us thought you meant.

Still, I find it somewhat difficult believe there are significant numbers of people making a decision to not attend a game because the TV announcer didn't convince them there's fun to be had at the ol' ballpark.

Or, what RR wrote while I made this useless post.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

So, every sports exec that believes announcers help sell and attract fan bases is wrong?

Nobody is saying anyone is responsible for a fan base being developed.

Just acknowledge that with todays media your announcers are part of the sales team.

I understand Hawk is not that guy. he isnt tweeting, he sint asking you to send him a selfie, then what else is he doing? is he Harry? Jack Buck? Vin? HELL NO.

And RR you are wrong about Len doing nothing for attendance. This crap year and this crap celebration of Wrigley brought people to the park this year and he sold the crap out of it.

As for Stone? yes, he is a smug smart ass with an ax to grind, but when he watches something, he knows what he is seeing. Problem is he needs to fit into the rantings of Hawk. That pair doesnt work well at all.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Take a look at your own nephew & the kids on his LL team. They want bells & whistles at the ball park & don't care (or listen to broadcasts for more than an inning or so). My own sons have played for a decade plus & neither of them really want to sit down and listen watch a ball game on tv. They & their friends want to play the game (or a video game), not watch it on tv. Of course if their fathers are obnoxious asses who fraudulently claim they can turn around 90-95 mph fastballs, or could once dunk...but now: "well son, do you know the meaning of the word obfuscate?"

Hence, Ricketts wants to breach his valid contracts and now play dumb to put in video boards and shiny/sparkly things to attract new fans.

Or to close off Waveland and make "Wrigleyville" the Beer Garden more of an in house thing to attract the drunken young twentysomethings....who don't listen/watch broadcasts now either. That's the big winner, get the frat/sorority types drunk & silly...and make new fans that way. But distract from Ricketts' failures in that vein by having a clowny lap dog set up a red herring with Hawk.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I think he can make a game unwatchable on TV (with the volume on) for a non-sox fan and thus they do no watch the game. If they watch the games they familiarize themselves with the team and might find something appealing and watch more......and then attend a game. I think that is the only way he could directly affect attendance.

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That's my purse! I don't know you!

You continue to say anyone says 'We are going going because of Hawk"....and I agree, nobody does that.

It's called marketing you present something in the best light to have someone buy it. That includes THE SPOKESPERSON. Which in this case is the announcer.

Of course winning is the best option. Not even close, but the Sox have won and numbers dont gp up very much either.

I dont think Jim DeShairs does much for a broadcast either and was brought in with some hype. That was a bad hire

BB and Len did a GREAT broadcast and made people want to be a part of what they are doing and these guys promoted coming to Wrigley all the time.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Len has nothing to do with Tom Ricketts going on every local news show & comping every news director to sell the hell out of a comically ignored tradition and nostalgia for an aged ballpark some can only see through rose colored glasses. Len has nothing to do with the beloved "Bleacher Bums", or ivy, or an old wooden scoreboard, or a red marquee(?) or the goat or warm Old Style piss that so many still love and revere. Or at least revere the memories of that scenario when they & their buddies got lucky with another Cubbie fan waybackwhen.

And then they buy everything with 100th Anniversary in sight.

Just like they will when it's the Cubbie 100th season in ol' Weeghman.

And I don't begrudge the Ricketts one buck for fleecing the faithful.


But in fairness, no one since Drysdale has been able to work with Hawk. He couldn't big time DD & there were better broadcasts back then.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I do believe my second paragraph indicated that I disagreed with your position that Hawk's inability to "sell" prevented any notable number of folks from purchasing tickets that otherwise would have if it were a replacement-level announcer. As you clarified your position, I in turn re-stated mine. I appears that we both just read past each other once each is all.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

They had a Harry and fired him so that they could have Don Drysdale call games, because Don Drysdale was an ex-player.

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It seems you're taking both sides of this and stating that your argument is still best. Your first sentence above may very well be valid in the conclusion and yet apparently there are those execs who don't believe or bother with the conclusion or application of the stated tenet. All the flaws and faults that are being cited (including mine with a radio team where I just flat out can't listen) rest with the one person who apparently doesn't give a damn, or doesn't believe that his "top salesmen" are all that bad. But that's also just it and as you point out, the tweeting, selfies, and texts allow the salesmen to be interchangeable. And 100 year celebrations are going to do far more for generating interest than the broadcaster for the 100 years of losing team.

Back in the day, Vin Scully did both TV and radio so he was a draw as fans would bring their portable radios to hear Vin live. These days broadcasters all do the same reads of copy from promotions departments that attend the same seminars for conceptual inspiration. Before Len was doing reads in Chicago he did essentially the same reads in Miami, like everyone else.

As for Stone, there was a time he was considered to be in hot demand to run a team (or was it own a team), but I think years ago he decided that cashing checks didn't mean having to work anymore than what is minimally necessary.

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DRINK BƎTTƎR. @theRIPH

Are you really saying that Jerry Reinsdorf knows that Hawk is costing him millions of dollars but is keeping him around because he likes him?

That's absurd.

For better or worse, Hawk is the voice of the White Sox. He has been for my entire time as a fan. I think he is great but unfortunately his decline has happened and it's probably time for him to step aside. However, to think that Jerry, who you have said multiple times is a great businessman who just wants to make money, is keeping Hawk around while knowing he is hurting the Sox so much goes against pretty much every point you have ever made about Jerry.

This is just you not liking Hawk and making up an excuse to get him removed. Harry Caray may have gotten people to come to the ballpark but whatever vanilla and boring announcers that most MLB teams have now aren't exactly compelling enough to make me go to a game either.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!