First ballot HOF. Not a doubt in my mind.

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-- source

Clearly your home has a gas leak.

Lets pray for a spark.

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The point is, nobody in his right mind could think Aramis Ramirez was better than Scott Rolen. And Scott Rolen ain't making the Hall of Fame.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Wait til Bernstein gets on BR and tells you about his similarity scores!

edit:
Hell I'll look it up. Scott Rolen's #1 similarity is...Aramis Ramirez. ARam's is Matt Williams with Rolen #2

Besides Pujols, Trout, Cabrera, and Jeter... no other active player will ever make the HOF.

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner

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You forgot Sale, Abreu, and, of course, Buerhle.

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It's way too soon to put Trout in that group. And barring his career being over, Verlander is probably going to make it. And maybe Sabathia too. They're not just going to stop putting starting pitchers in simply because nobody gets enough decisions to make 250 career wins anymore.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

What? Ortiz
Kershaw
King Felix
ill be back with more soon...Rolen is getting in..bank it

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Ichiro

Good one, he is definitely in.

So is 200 going to be the new benchmark or even lower? If it's 200 then you have to look at a Tim Hudson, Bartolo Colon and Buerhle...

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Most pitchers dominant years will be to small of a window to get in. Look at Lincecum. Verlander's dominant days are done. Felix and Kershaw have the best chance, but they have to stay healthy.

How good was Maddux then? I believe that he had a 5 year stretch where he had an ERA below 2 and he won at least 15 games for about 17 years in a row.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

You can't put a number on wins anymore ...pedro is getting in...he's under 300

Miguel Cabrera is a no doubter..good call on Ichiro.

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Great in the regular season but meh in the postseason.

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You just have to get in.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Well, yeah, staying healthy is the whole ballgame. But Verlander has a head start on someone like Kershaw, who could easily have a career ending injury tomorrow. He's already at 150 wins and has been the best pitcher in his league over the last ten years. He's going to have over 2000 strikeouts. Kershaw is going to do those things too if he stays on the field. But that's a big "if" these days. I can make a lot better case for Verlander than I could for guys like Buehrle and Colon. I'm just not sure how the voters are going to adjust to the new paradigms. It can't be that no starting pitchers ever make it in again.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

There was never a strict numbers requirement on wins. Bob Gibson won 251 games. But a career looks different these days. I'm not sure Verlander's 170 wouldn't relate to Gibson's 250.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Why does it seem like the best pitchers can't stay healthy?

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I think what you are going to find is that very few people will be getting into the HOF in the next 20-30 years.

I heard Stone last week blaming the lowering of the mound and the fact that it's so much more difficult to throw an effective curve so several generations of pitchers have relied upon sliders and cutters which put much more stress on the arm. As good a theory as any.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I don't think it's a coincidence the best curveballs in the game happen to belong to the best pitchers. Kershaw, Wainwright, Jose Fernandez, King Felix.

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

Half of your list had Tommy John surgery.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Your point? A similar percentage of legendary pitchers would have had TJS in their respective eras of dominance as well, if Tommy John surgery had existed. Guys who throw 200+ (300+ back in the day) frames every year, are eventually going to blow out their arms. A well-thrown curve is probably less stressful on the elbow, shoulder, and arm in general than the splitter, cutter, and especially the slider. The guys I mentioned all have slider, but it's generally not their breaking ball of choice (the big looping Uncle Charlie). We are fast approaching a point where all pitchers who have an 6-10+ year career will eventually go under the knife.

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

All that aside, I believe Rolen has a case, but won't get in. Rolen, before the hard turfs in Philly contributed to his back problems that would derail his career-- was the best all around 3B in the game since Schmidt.

Beltre will get in eventually. Aramis Ramirez has no chance.

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

Troy Tulowitzki (if he stays healthy) and Konerko have a chance

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Sherman remarked, "Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?" Grant looked up. "Yes," he replied, followed by a puff. "Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow, though."

That most of the great pitchers today get hurt unlike they did when I was growing up. Greg Maddux and Roger Clemens didn't need Tommy John even though they pitched many more innings. If you're great today there is a good chance your arm will fall off.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!