I am drinking a glass of ice cold SHARKs as I type this.

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To continue the analogy, to evaluate a pitcher, one needs the ocean of water and not the glass of water.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

No, the fan would say, if your teammate pisses in the glass of water, then it no longer can be compared to another glass of water. It is just piss.

Stay thirsty my friend.

There is so much luck in baseball, it is ridiculous. To judge what somebody did in one game or even four games is absurd. The ump had chili for lunch and didn't want to bend over too far and missed a strike call. Could be the difference between a win and a loss.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

I guess we're gonna need a bigger boat.

And people think you're annoying.


You are my caucasian

I figure if you're not annoying somebody, you've got nothing interesting to say anway.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

You should be selling Dos Equis then.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Oh, he's annoying. In a pasta way. Which is fine.

That part, however, is borderline fucking golden.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Jimmy's my idol. Smartest guy on the board.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

I understand ORRs points, I just don't agree with him. There are many better ways to evaluate pitcher performance, and for the most part every franchise in the game is using them. He can argue all he wants, there was a time when batting average was considered the penultimate method of comparing hitters. The game has changed, you can embrace it or not.

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

Simple and succinct.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

The game hasn't changed, you just look at it differently than you used to.

Of course it makes sense. A fraction of a run is equivalent to zero. The superior offenses only demonstrate their superiority over time. And I would think it should be fair to assume that that the majority of said superiority wasn't accumulated vs. the best pitchers in the game.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

You're incorrect

Offenses are vastly different even in a one game scenario.

I bet this is the time we reach concensus on this issue...

Can you expound on that?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I didn't say that. On occasion there will be a 2+ run difference in average offense between two teams. That's obviously a significant number to pitch over. But historically the best pitchers have done so. Walter Johnson accumulated most of his wins vs. teams that had superior offenses to the Senators. The thing is, those offenses weren't superior on the days they had to face Walter Johnson. In any case, in the vast majority of a pitcher's starts, the difference in the average offense produced by his team and the opponent isn't drastic at all, and as I keep repeating is most often just a fraction of a run.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I could but what's the point?

Lipid is correct

I'm just pointing out that I lay out argument after cogent argument in support of my position and most of the opposition consists of "JORR is an idiot" or "Nobody thinks that way anymore".

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Not me.

And your arguments are not cogent. Im sure you think they are.

Ive laid out what I mean several times and never once called you an idiot. I pointed out once that most people think a certain way, because I find it weird how sure you are off yourself


But Ive argued this with you cordially. We disagree. That's fine

You think 4.99 runs per game and 4.01 runs per game is the same thing. I do not.

You think an ERA of 3.99 is equal to an ERA of 3.01. I do not.

I don't think a 3.99 ERA is equal to a 3.01 ERA. If the 3.99 guy makes 17 starts in Colorado and the 3.01 guy makes 17 in LA, the 3.99 might be better. Or what if the 3.99 guy faces more 4.99 rpg teams and the 3.01 guy happens to catch a bunch of 4.01 rpg teams?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

which is exactly why we have more sophisticated stats nowadays.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

There's more noise in WAR than any traditional stat.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

there are many stats out there. pick the one you want. park adjusted FIP is pretty good.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

It punishes Hendricks and Buehrle for their strengths.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

how many pitchers in the league are there? can you give me a scouting report on every one of them? If not, what am I supposed to go by?

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Both.

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011