I think you guys are whacky the way you undervalue pitching.

There may be exceptions, I'm just not convinced he is one. He's starting to seem like the kind of guy who figures out how to give it up in a key situation. He'll have pinpoint control until he walks that leadoff batter in the seventh inning of a tie ballgame.

Even JORR understands there are exceptions

I think he has specifically said before that there's never been a good below .500 pitcher in history.

I think he has specifically said before that there's never been a good below .500 pitcher in history.

Who is the good one?

Who is the good one?

But there are .540 pitchers who are better than .580 pitchers

Ya, I don't make this trade. The lockdown on steroids/HGH and huge strike zone has zapped hitting.

■Anthony Rizzo hit .286/.386/.527, and increase of 53 points in BA from last year, 63 points in OBP, and 108(!) points in SLG. That’s an overall OPS increase of 171 points. Good Lord.
■Rizzo’s .397 wOBA was the 7th best in all of baseball, and third best in the NL, behind only Andrew McCutchen and Giancarlo Stanton. His 153 wRC+ was 9th best in baseball – once again, behind only McCutchen and Stanton in the NL.
■Rizzo’s 5.3 WAR was a 3.6 win improvement over last season. It made Rizzo the 16th most valuable offensive player in baseball, tied with guys like Robinson Cano, Jose Abreu, and Miguel Cabrera.
■Rizzo hit 32 homers, second most in the NL, despite missing 22 games (Giancarlo Stanton was first at 37, and he missed 17 games – that guy’s a freak).
■Rizzo did all of this with beautifully sustainable peripherals. His 18.8% K rate was a slight tick up from last year, but still below league average. His 11.9% walk rate was 16th best in baseball (tied, incidentally, with teammate Luis Valbuena). Rizzo’s .311 BABIP was essentially identical to the .310 mark in his rookie year, making last seasons’s .258 look more like the outlier than the baseline.
■Rizzo was also the 5th best defensive first baseman by UZR/150.

Ya, I don't make this trade. The lockdown on steroids/HGH and huge strike zone has zapped hitting. Quintana is good but give me the slugger who walks everyday.

He's not the right fit for the Cubbies. Perhaps the Rockies have something to offer.

He's not the right fit for the Cubbies.

Is Lester the right fit? Didn't Quintana have a better year? LOOK. AT. HIS. FIP.

He understands how awesome Felix was in 2010 when he was 13-12


BadRogue seems to be taking it even further.


I wonder what Rogue thought of .500 pitcher at the time Josh Beckett in 2003
In
Becket was 26-26 after 2004

He is now 138-106

Quintana requires giving up an integral position player. Lester you just give money. If I have to suffer looking at ads and finding the cubs game on CubsNet channel 56.3 I better see that cash in use.

If the Cubs were in a position like the Tigers where they have Miggy, Martinez, Kinsler etc to help offset losing a position player I say sure look into the trade.

Quick glance at team stats (not advanced) for the Cubs in 2014:

Team Batting:
Runs: 26th
OBP: 28th
OPS: 21st

Team Pitching:
ERA: 21st
QS: 24th
OPS: 15th

I feel like stubborn trotting of Edwin and his 6.33 ERA for 140 innings skewed team ERA 2-3 spots.

Getting rid of Rizzo would lead to the same "no run support!" barking Quintana already receives

Run Support doesn't exist.

Run Support doesn't exist.

I thought we weren't allowed to discuss NL pitchers versus AL pitchers any longer?

Different leagues and all...

Also, Quintana would cause the Cubs 9-spot in the order to be that much weaker, and as JORR and BR have told us, the 9th hitter is the most important in the lineup. A bad 9 hitter means a bad offense. Automatic outs, and all that jazz.

What makes you think Quintana isn't a good hitting pitcher?

The interleague bats I've seen plus the career oh-for.

Or can we judge how good a player's at bats are now by only the win loss record?

Quintana was 1-2 in 3 starts at NL ballparks this year. Let's call him a .333 hitter.

How many career at-bats does he have, dumbass?

I really don't understand you guys.

Sometimes sample size is the most important thing in the world to you. And at other times, it can be disregarded. Your Abreu comments in April make me wonder if you even know.

The Cubs had excellent pitching for most of the year, if you remove Edwin Jackson from the equation. Chris Bosio is excellent with young pitchers, and the Cubs are in a position to obtain additional pitching talent through free agency.

Why consider trading your three hitter for a guy like Quintana?

That's exactly his m.o. so far in his career. 24-24 in his career. Just a guy who figures out how to be just good enough to lose. Not interested, especially for an everyday player who so far seems to be getting better .

He did? Maybe to a crazy ass fickle Cubs fan. I'm not suggesting that Eaton, Abreu, or Davidson are Hall of Fame caliber players. But I'll stack them up against Almora, Rizzo, and Bryant for their careers and feel real comfortable going forward. And nobody is constantly referring to the guy who found them as a "genius".