Sure you do. That is exactly what you do. You have the ability to make your team better. You aren't the Royals or the Rays. Spend the money like a big league club.
Top 8.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Redundant.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

The Cubs and White Sox are in very different places. That extends way past their current respective rosters.

Theo has had it pretty easy his entire time in Chicago, he's been able to lose with complete impunity. Almost every team in baseball is trying to win, so when a team comes along and is either ambivalent about winning or actually prefers to lose the rest of the league gladly pummels them. Theo's goal has been to be bad, and every other team will oblige them. The rest of the league will also take All Star caliber players off the Cubs hand without much of a fuss, they'll even take less-than-all-star guys. The Cubs ask for prospects in return and teams trying to win eventually relent and let the Cubs have what they want.

Theo's tenure so far in Chicago has been incredibly easy. The hardest part is letting the fans and ownership tolerate being so bad for so long, and with a fanbase as hopelessly gullible as Cubs' Nation (<-lol) and ownership as cheap as Ricketts Theo had about the easiest sell any GM could have. But now comes the hard part...competing.

Nobody competes with the Cubs to lose and very few compete with the Cubs to acquire more prospects at the expense of major league talent. Even the Red Sox, in shopping Jon Lester, didn't settle for a prospect in return. They wanted a everyday big leaguer. Teams are interested but not necessarily invested in other teams' minor league talent most of the time.

What teams are interested in guys who everyone knows can play. Like Russell Martin and to a different extent Masahiro Tanaka. There's competition for those guys. Other teams will not just hand them over and say "OK fine bud, doesnt' bother me." Every single time the Cubs have tried competing with other teams for anything from Girardi to Martin they lose. Any time one of the uber prospects comes up they look like dogshit (exception: Soler). The Cubs are wildly succeeding in the easiest part of The Plan, but at the same time failing at the more difficult aspects of building a good MLB club.

The reason the Cubs should want Martin is because he is a very good catcher. Both offensively and defensively he's way, way above average. Also, he's insurance. In the real baseball world, not the fantasy land the Cubs have been existing in where winning doesn't matter, things go wrong. Jorge Soler has a bit of thing for getting hurt, he also likes to attack opponents with his bat (50 game suspension easily). There's no saying Javier Baez or Alcantara will improve. There's no saying Bryant will be able to make contact against big leaguers. Even the guy I really like, Addison Russell, is at best a 50/50 shot. Hendricks and Arrietta might be figured out. Rizzo might take a step backwards. Castro is likely gone, but even if he stays there's no guarantee Merlot Joe can keep him motivated. I can assure you not all of these bad-case scenarios are going to happen, but I am equally convinced some of them will. Russell Martin could even flop, but he's a much safer bet than Wellington Castillo at a position that is easily the hardest to fill in baseball.

And none of that's even counting what opponents will do to sabotage the Cubs. Think the tampering that undoubtedly went into grabbing Joe Maddon? You think the Cubs are the only team willing to hit below the belt a little to get what they want? The instant the Cubs become a threat teams will respond accordingly to the threat. I have not seen any indication at all, aside from the Maddon signing (which may get the Cubs penalized) that the Cubs can compete with other MLB teams. They just lose out, and then pretend that losing is exactly like winning because there's A Plan.

I dont buy it.

No, that's an incredibly terrible thought. If you have good production from a low payroll you dont up it for upping it's sake.



You cant put a ranking on it. It depends on how many of the young guys come thru.

If a lot of the young guys work out, the payroll wont be that high while they're young (that will come later if/when they resign these guys)

I said top 8 but that doesn't sound as crazy so I see why you went with that.

Don't make me find your posts about expanding payroll and your thoughts on how cheap Ricketts has been so far. I'm sure I'll find plenty of contradictions to this new "Don't spend money because you have young players on cheap deals" stance of yours.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

So, you are saying the Cubs are so good they don't need to add high priced free agents. Don't call me obtuse and then say that. The Cubs, and any big market team, should always have a high payroll when they want to compete. We could even argue if top 8 is a high payroll for the dominant team in a huge city like Chicago.
Many of those players aren't even on the team now! So you now we're talking about a big payroll once they have to re-sign Addison Russell which is many years down the line?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You will not find any posts where I advocated spending money just to spend it.

I want Ricketts to spend when neccessary but I would never say spend just to spend. That's ridiculous and also how you end up fucked (back end of Hendry tenure)

I just take it case by case. Like I said, if you have 4 or 5 guys on rookie deals, you're just not going to have an insanely high payroll.


I think they should always be top 10ish. I think hoping for that this year is unreasonable though.

Ok, so you are pretending the last three years didnt happen and every player in baseball is a free agent?

Im working with the understanding that Bryant, Russell, Baez and Soler will be given chances over the next two years.

If you are talking about signing guys to start in front of them, I dont think that's realistic with what we know and the last three years.




No, Im saying these young cheap guys are going to get their chances over the next two years so the payroll is going to be affected by their cheap salaries for the next two years.

Pretty simple.

Rick do you think the Cubs should've given Martin the money and years he just signed for?

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

so you wouldn't pay him 5 years. Thanks.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Clearly I was crazy to think roughly the same thing. Oh, but this must be me being obtuse again!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It is you being obtuse because you're ignoring the very obvious fact stated in the second half of the quoted text

The Cubs could sign Lester, Scherzer, Martin and Robertson and still not come close to adding 96 million

Be real, bro


Also, that was bullshit saying I used your top 5 to make you sound bad. Didnt you post this?

It depends on what else they would have missed out on if they had to. We have to see what happens next.

If they wanted him as much as they seemed to then yes, even with the fifth year. I understand if they use that money somewhere else.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

When a team has so much cheap talent while also having an assload of money they are capable of spending it would not be a bad idea. Martin was actually a lot better of an option than Lester or Scherzer.

This thread hurts my brain.

So the Cubs should spend money for the sake of spending money even if it's a bad baseball decision. Why is it not possible to want a free agent and offer him a very reasonable offer and just get beat by another team? Based on this, no free agent should ever sign anywhere outside of LA, New York, Boston and Chicago. Cool.

These arguments being faciliated by the same group who criticized the Cubs for Soriano, Zambrano contracts etc.


Good times.

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Team Cutler.

What this ultimately ignores is the fact that they passed on a guy they wanted already because he was too expensive.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It doesnt ignore it, I included siging Martin. Those 4 guys wont make 96 next year

They would have to sign Scherzer and Lester to approach what you're saying.

Most people would say that is a bad investment (to sign TWO 30 year old Starting pitchers)

This is mostly true.

You aren't spending just to spend money though. When you are a big market team a "reasonable offer" doesn't always cut it for a player you definitely want. This is the advantage of being a big market team.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Its the Chicago Cubs, not the Oakland A's! Holy shit!

If you can afford to take the payroll risks its not a bad idea to go ahead and take them!

What I meant was they didn't though. They let one of those guys walk. If they made those four signings and they don't end up hitting the 96 million mark then we can talk.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

With Martin, I agree. If they really wanted him pay a few extra million.

But I know you dont think they should sing Lester and Scherzer

Overall we agree that they should stay in the top ten

But the last three years and this youth movement has changed that for the time being. That ship has sailed. They wont be a top payroll team in 15 (yeah, you can use that Steve)

Because they cost twice as much as Martin and pitchers gonna pitch. I dont think you have to worry at all about the Cubs signing either though, they'll be "involved" but "just miss out" to "a team willing to spend".

The youth movement shouldn't change that. In fact, it should give you even more incentive to overpay because you can fill in the holes to compete faster.

It's like having a good young quarterback in the NFL. You can spend that money on other positions of need. That assumes that the Cubs have positions that could use an upgrade though.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

They have positions that could use upgrades for sure but about 5 or 6 positions players and 2-3 spots in the rotation will be taken by young guys in the next two years.

But you never spend just to spend.


If the Cubs added 96 million or anything like that (Basically, Lester, Scherzer and three more high priced free agents) to the payroll I guarantee they would regret it in two years.

So what year should they have a top 8 payroll?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Cant say because it depends on how many if any of the young guys work out and when they're resigned.

Id guess by 2017 though.

That would be disappointing especially with the idea that they were saving money the past 3 years they would then spend.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

How is that disappointing?

What if they win the next three world series and never crack the top 8?

You tell me. You think they should have a top 10 payroll every year too.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!