I think that getting Kobe is the right move at almost any cost. The Bulls don't need a 10 man rotation, as long as they are 8 deep they should be okay. That being said, I want to see Pax get him giving up as little as possible.

Kobe, Deng, and Hinrich are better than Kobe, Odom, and whoever you consider the third best player on the Lakers. Hinrich would be the third best player on a championship team.

I know you want Kobe, but if they give up Hinrich then all we are is the same team the Lakers were last year, and besides winning a few more games in a weaker conference that doesn't do anything to make things better.

Please answer why the Bulls with Kobe, Deng, Duhon, Nocioni, and a few post players is better than the Lakers with Kobe, Odom, Smush Parker, Walton, and a few post players.

Smush Parker is as good if not better than Chris Duhon.
Walton and Nocioni are a wash.
Tyrus Thomas/Ben Wallace(one would have to be traded) and Noah are not that much better than Andrew Bynum/Kwame Brown.


We would be the exact same team unless Tyrus Thomas suddenly becomes an all star.

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Hinrich doesn't really help us make this happen, financially speaking. Because he's BYC, his salary would only count as $5.5 mil in the trade. So unless you want to trade 4 guys for Kobe (at least 3 of which would be "core" players), we need to have Wallace in the package. And if Kobe is coming, then Gordon is going, so why offer Wallace + Gordon + Hinrich? Even though a starting backcourt of Duhon & Kobe is stronger than Hinrich & Gordon, we have more depth at the 3-5 positions than we do at the 1-2. Tyrus obviously has the bigger upside, but I would seriously consider including Thomas instead of Kirk, simply because of what our roster would look like after the dust settles:

PG - Hinrich
SG - Kobe
SF - Deng
PF - Nocioni
C - Noah

PG - Duhon
GF - Thabo
FC – Smith

It leaves you with much more balance in your rotation. Plus, I do believe LA has high hopes for Javaris Crittenton, and when you look at the future of the Lakers:

PG – Crittenton
SG – Gordon
SF - *
PF – Tyrus
C – Bynum

Taking back Hinrich doesn’t make that much sense for them.

* they could either keep Odom (who’s still fairly young), play Walton (who they just extended), or move Odom for an expiring contract plus a pick – and package that pick w/ their own (which would be in the lottery if Kobe leaves) and target a top SF prospect. Think of the above w/ somebody like Nicolas Batum plugged in at the SF spot. They’d get rolled in the West for a couple of years, but by 2010, they’d be downright nasty, and for a long time too.

By the way, Rick, Smush is on Miami now.

I knew that, but I am comparing last years lakers to what we would be this year. I could have substituted Derek Fisher.

I am just afraid that if we trade Hinrich and Gordon that we are the same team that the Lakers were last year, which wasn't very good.

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I don't think anything is going to happen with the Bulls.

I don't think so, either. Financially, they're just not in a spot to make a big move right now.

I'm holding out hope that Brand will stick it to the Clippers next offseason and that we can land him on the cheap.

What about Dallas' chances if they land him?

Unless they want to move Dirk, the only trade package that really works financially is Terry + Dampier, which is just plain awful. That's worse than a Nas FFL trade offer.

Fooled around a bit w/ the numbers, and Dallas could also offer:

Erick Dampier
Josh Howard
Devin Harris
Maurice Ager

for

Kobe & Radmanovic

I think a potential Bulls package is much stronger, but at least under this scenario, they're able to erase the mistake they made w/ the Radmanovic signing.

That's a brutal package.
Gordon & Tyrus alone make it a better return from the bUlls.

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I agree it's not as good as what the Bulls could offer, but I wouldn't say it's brutal- considering the Wolves got Al Jefferson and not much else, Harris and Howard are two starters. I think Harris regressed a bit but Howard looked great last year.

We dont only need to include players. #1 draft picks are considerable assets also, and I think that the Lakers jump at an offer of Ben, Tyrus, Ben and next year's first round pick considering how desperate they are. Also besides Crittenton dont forget they have Farmer too. I doubt they would even be asking for Kirk. There is many ways to get this done without giving up Kirk or Deng.

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Sorry, but I have to disagree with your comparisons. Right now, Deng is better than Odom. Period. Second, although Smush is slightly better than Duhon offensively, he is absolutely terrible on D.....Phil Jackson couldn't get rid of him soon enough. Duhon (sleepy as he may be) would contribute more to a championship team than Parker because of his ball-handling and defense. Third, a healthy Nocioni is slightly better than Walton, but I will give you a wash if you want. Fourth, to say that Wallace, Thomas and Noah are inferior to Bynum and Brown is ridiculous. Wallace has been D-player of the year; I know he is on the other side of his prime, but Bynum is 19, and Brown is a bust and injury prone. Not even close here. I would rather have Wallace than Bynum and would rather have Thomas than Brown....

I think you deal you make is this
Gordon
Ben Wallace (has to be involved for contract purposes)
Joakim Noah
Andres Nocioni
2 1st round picks

First of all we can probably win the East as is right now, and are definitely going to be in the top 3 this year. Second of all, that is way too damn much. They would probably accept Deng, Ben Wallace, and one first rounder, but it wouldnt make sense to not trade Ben Gordon since him and Kobe wouldnt fit together at the same time on the court. I dont see how they can include Deng at all because the offer needs to include Wallace(for cap purposes), Gordon(because Kobe takes care of everything he is good at and obviously adds a shitload more), and one or two other pieces. I think adding Tyrus and 1 or 2 first rounders would be a better deal than any other team is offering right now.

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Who do you play at center? Gray for 48 minutes a game? You can't get rid of both Noah and Wallace.

And you can't trade Nocioni until after December 31st.

That's an overlooked aspect of the trade- good point. Although you'd be taking back a pretty bad one in Radmonovic too

Deng is better than Odom and I think he will get better but both players are pretty close right now.
Smush Parker and Chris Duhon both suck, so it really doesn't matter who is slightly better.
Nocioni is a better defensive player, Walton is a better offensive player.

I wasn't saying that Wallace and Thomas weren't better than Brown and Bynum. Either Wallace or Thomas will be a part of the trade so we only keep one of them.
Ben Wallace and Joakim Noah are much better defensively, probably better rebounding, and worse on the offensive end. I would rather have them, but it's not that much of an improvement over Bynum/Brown. Also,Noah and Wallace cannot both start.
Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah are probably better in all parts from Bynum and Wallace but it's not that much better. Once again, not a whole lot different from what the Lakers had last year.

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Like I have been saying I think you guys underestimated Mitch Kupchak and the deperate state the Lakers are in. The offers I have said would still be better than anything Dallas is offering and lets not forget this is a team that gave away shaq for odom and garbage, and right when caron was starting to come around, gave him away for Kwame. They apparently arent too fond of keeping good players.

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I dont think they would have. The Cavs were essentially the same team with better defensive effort and they got the 2 seed by 1 game.

[quote="Nas"] Look back at the Pistons series last year if the Bulls had a guy like Kobe that could take over they would have won that series. quote]

Thats a huge if Nas. I agree, if the Bulls had the best player in the NBA last year they most likely would have won that series and most likely go to the finals and put up a good fight against the Spurs. I agree we need to do everything possible to get him, but the way the Bulls are constructed right now they only have 1 core player(wallace) who is past his prime, and every other core guy hasnt even reached their prime yet. Everyone on their team is putting up better numbers and win totals every year, so theres no reason to think it wouldnt continue. If they dont get Kobe I still think they win the East this year.

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Agreed. The Bulls WILL NOT win a championship with their current team. Add Kobe and subtract andy two of their key pieces EXCEPT Deng AND Gordon and they can do it.

Bryant
Hinrich
Deng
Thomas
Noah = Championship

Bryant
Gordon
Deng
Nocioni
Noah = Championship

Bryant
Gordon
Deng
Nocioni
Walllace = Championship

Gordon
Hinrich
Deng
Thomas
Wallace = Playoffs

Chauncey was known as Mr. Big Shot but the 04 Pistons didnt have a traditional go to guy.

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I don't want to read the whole thread, so can someone tell me what you guys decided?

I'm guessing Nas says get Kobe no matter the price.
Most of you say get Kobe only if we don't give up Deng.
A minority say keep him.

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That's about right.

I fall in category #2 by the way.

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I say you must keep Deng and Hinrich because I don't want Chris Duhon as our starting point guard.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I fall into a fourth category. I'm against the trade on general principle.

I say you need to hold on to Nocioni. Everyone else is expendable.

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I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
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Just to have an excuse to play the Nocioni song, if nothing else.

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What principle? You think he's a selfish ballhog? Or you just dont like trying to trade for the best player in the NBA?

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