Here is why your whole point is bad. We aren't talking in hypotheticals here, we are talking facts.

The Cubs intentionally didn't compete for the world series during the past three seasons because they wanted to build the best farm system in baseball. They accomplished that goal, and I would say accomplished it beyond anyone's expectations.

The Sox tried to win the world series during the past three seasons and wanted to improve their farm system. The sox were successful in improving their farm system, but from where they came from, it would have been impossible NOT to improve. I would say that they failed miserably in trying to win the world series, in fact, failed miserably is probably too much credit. In an era where it has never been easier to make the playoffs, they didn't even make the playoffs. In exchange for this, the Sox have basically a middle of the pack farm system.

So to get back to what you said, above, what is the price paid. The price the Cubs paid for having the best farm sytem in baseball (and not just the best in baseball, but probably one of the best in the past 25 years) is three years of bad baseball. The Sox had one year of average baseball, and two years of crappy baseball, and they price they paid for that was not having a better farm system.

We aren't talking about future hypotheticals, the results are in on this one.

It would be one thing if the Sox made the playoffs one of those years, or maybe made the playoffs and won a series, but they had absolutely the same playoff success as the Cubs - none.

White Sox: Bad the past two years.
Cubs: Bad the past five years.

It's clear you refuse to start that as the basis of conversation so this whole thing is pointless. The Sox could have lost every single game the past two seasons and the Cubs still had a 3 year head start on it so of course they have a better farm system. If the Sox were to intentionally lose for the next 3 years they probably have the #1 farm system in baseball too.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Cardinals fell to 13th.

4 out of top 100

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

What do you think the Cubs are going to get out of Bryant? But yeah, I know Cub fans never assume that their prospects are going to be great. Regular downers, those Cub fans.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I don't know what the Cubs will get out of Bryant the next 5-10 years, but I know what the Sox got out of that 85 win season - Abso-fucking-lutely nothing.

In the two years you talk about the Cubs had a "head start" they had anything but a head start. In those two years they were trying to win, so they did batshit crazy stuff like trade three top prospects to the Rays for Matt Garza, sign Carlos Pena, etc. That is what happens when you try to win with a crappy team, not only do you not win, but in all likelhood you hurt your minor league system in the process. So yeah, the Cubs were worse than the Sox in 2010 and 2011 (an aggregate of 21 wins) but the Cubs were still trying to win, which compounds the problem, because other than getting higher picks, the Cubs wasted resources by trading young guys, and as importantly spending money on free agents during the last years of the wild west of international signings when you could just throw any amount of money at players.

So were the Cubs worse than the sox in 2010 and 2011- absolutely. Did this give the Cubs a head start - not even close.

This further gets to the point. As a Cubs fan I would have loved for the organization to have thrown in the towel starting with the 2010 season, because that truely would have given the Cubs a head start.

I mean are you happy the Sox didn't trade Viciedo for a live AA body or two a few years ago, so he could contribute to that historical and oh so memorable 85 win team in 2012, or would you rather have rolled the dice with a few 20 year olds?

Hindsight is always 20-20.

The Sox were in FIRST PLACE until the last week of the season in 2012. Tank put up career best number of 25 HR and 78 RBI. I am happy the Sox tried to get into the playoffs in 2012. I would have much rather them did what they did than to "roll the dice with a few 20 year olds."

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Wrong. Wacthing an 85 win team is vastly superior to watching a 65 win team. I'm glad you don't mind wasting a year of your life. I'm sure poor Ernie (I'm guessing he was more talented than Kris Bryant) thought he would win MULTIPLE CHAMPIONSHIPS too.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Does being in first place after 155 games get you into the playoffs these days? If so, please provide a link.

I guess that seperates you and I as fans. I'm pissed that the Cubs tried to get into the playoffs in 2010 and 2011 and didn't start making the moves to get better as an organization. You are happy playing patty-cake with your fellow Sox fans to celebrate your 85 win, no playoff season.

No shit, hindsight is 20-20. The original response was to Nas, who commented that it was even more impressive that the sox improved their farm system while not "intentionally tanking." Sure, that is nice and all, but my point was all of that perceived competitiveness didn't benefit the sox at all, they sacrificed three years of potential re-building, or re-tooling, to be a completely below average team.

Isn't the smarter response "Damn, we improved the farm system to #12 from dead fucking last at the same time we made misguided attempts to win the WS. Imagine what the farm system would look like if we hadn't wasted that effort to make the playoffs and just went wholesale into building for the future."

Strange, I thought the goal here was to win the World Series, or at least have a shot at winning the World Series (i.e. playoffs)? JORR, I hate to break it to you, but you wasted the same year of your life in 2012 with the Sox that I did with the Cubs.

In the below choice, JORR would be the dunce taking option #2.

Would you rather:

A. Suck for five years, win a WS in year six, then suck for the next 4; or
B. Win 85 games and not make the playoffs for ten straight years.

Have fun with those memorable barely better than .500 teams pal.

Also, not for nothing, why don't you point out where I said that Kris Bryant and the Cubs are going to win multiple championships? It should be easy, just use the quote function. Just as a tip, don't waste your time looking because I didn't say it. Make up shit that people say on your own time.

What is your favorite Cubs post-season memory?


There is only one Championship to be won this year. You can field a competitive team, and still compete for the future. You will find multiple posts here from roughly 2009 thru 2013 of Sox fans-- myself included-- bashing moves that Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillen made. There was some praise too, but it was not all patty cake as you suggest.

The difference that separates you and I as fans, other than intelligence on this end, is that in your eyes, your Cubs can do no wrong. Theo has lost over 300 MLB games since he took over the reigns of the Cubs, and if he were up for a contract today you would likely be one of the first ones advocating for him to be here long term.

The correct answer would be 'imagine what the Sox farm system would be like if Kenny Williams didn't trade literally every single piece away and made some more sensible moves.'

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im really liking this One Post guy.....

He really loves himself, too.

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The above makes me think you are insane.

1. "The Cubs can do no wrong in my eyes" -uhhh, why don't you read a few of my past posts where I basically say everything they did for a two year period was absolutely the wrong thing to do.

2. "You can field a competitive team and build for the future" - you sure can, no question about that, but you know who is going to be building a better future, the guy who doesn't give two shits about winning 85 games and only cares about stocking up the minor leagues with the most talent that one man can acquire. Again, I don't know what is laudible about being under .500 and improving the minor league system. If you are making the playoffs and building the system, now you have something to talk about.

3. "Theo lost over 300 games.." - yeah, that is what happens when you take over a super shitty team and decide to devote everything to building a mega farm system. Anyone who didn't see that comming is just stupid. But with your self proclaimed level of intellect, I'm sure you understand/knew that would occur.

4. "Imagine what the farm system would have been if Kenny..." - this is my point when you make misguided attempts to win with a team that doesn't have the capability to do so, it has a devistating impact on the long term health of your organization, particularly your minor league system.

Sorry Frank, I was operating with the understanding that a message board was meant to be used to engage in a dialogue with other people. This requires reading posts, and drafting then submitting responses. I must be mistaken, so clearly you can tell me what the purpose of this, or for that matter, any message board is.

If you have a PDF of message board instructions, and general message board policies, please attach in your message.

Thanks in advance.

Easy there, killer. There is a Welcome Section for all of that nonsense.




Pick a lane. You cannot talk about 2012 like that and bash the White Sox, then turn around and praise the Cubs for building a "mega farm system." That is insanity.

Does having a "super mega happy fun ball farm system" get you into the playoffs these days?

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What's the point you're making? The Cubs have a better farm system? I agree. Considering it would be organizational suicide for the Sox to tank 3 years in a row I believe their current ranking of 12 is great.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Let's not forget that most of the Sox young talent was ML ready when they acquired them.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Cubs fans won't get facts get in the way, Nas!

Cue Kirkwood to fly in here with a post about Matt Davidson being MLB ready.

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I'm game on this point, but lets not play fast and loose with the definition or either young, or talent. Who are these young talents you speak of?

Nope having the best farm system in the league doesn't guarentee anything. It guarentees absolutely nothing. But here is something you might want to think about. The vast abundance of the most talented guys currently in MLB were the most talented guys in the minor leagues. Talent usually wins games, at all levels. A massive amount of talent, especially young talent, gives a GM tremendous financial and roster flexibility. Also, and as importantly, lets remember, this just isn't the best farm system for this year, Law and others are calling it perhaps the best farm system in the past 25 years. So having this farm system doesn't guarentee a playoff spot, but it is a hell of a nice place to start when you have a lot of payroll flexibility at the MLB level and you are ready to put together your playoff team.

Nas, I'm going to disagree wholeheartedly here. Saying a total rebuild would be organizational suicide is false. Organizations with much crappier fan bases have engaged in total overhauls and not committed suicide. If the Marlins could do what they did and survive, the Sox could shoot 10% of the fans that come into the Cell this year and survive as an organizaion.

I mean this is comparable to the nonsense that Cubs fans say when they proclaim the Cubs organization needs jumbotron revenue to be competitive. Again, that is complete bullshit, like the Cubs need jumbotron revenue to compete with the Reds.

One Post is stepping it up and taking uppercuts from all kinds of posters, this is Goldendomerish.

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2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins

No he can write complete sentences.

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Team Cutler.

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2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins

Best statement you have made in this thread.

I believe the Cubs were more talented than the Diamondbacks in the '07 NLDS, and more talented than the Dodgers in the '08 NLDS. I believe the Orioles were more talented than this year's Royals. Did any of those teams win?

A nice farm system is a good place to start. But here is something you should think about. After intentionally being one of THE worst teams in MLB over the last 3-4 years, as a Cubs fan I would say give me one of the best MLB teams in recent memory. You hang your hat on the farm system. Congrats, I guess.

The Sox have rebuilt theirs from the ruins in a quicker time frame, all the while not intentionally sacrificing big league wins.

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Frank, for someone who is as self proclaimed intelligent as you are I would have assumed that you understood the problem with small sample sizes?

Remember kids, the guy jumping up and down in the center of the room telling you how smart he is, usually isn't all that smart.

Also, do you know what the word "usually" means. If no, I'm not surprised, if yes, did you not see it in the post I submitted? You know, the post that you quoted from.

Let me ask this again, and hopefully for the last time. What did those 21 more wins over the last three years gain for the Sox? I've already made the point that all of the wins the Sox have accumulated in excess over the Cubs since 2012, all came in 2012. In the draft the following year, the Cubs took Bryant, the Sox took some guy that is in the minor league baseball equivalent of the witness protection program.

When you sacrifice the future, you want to gain something for the present. In 2012 the present gain was 85 wins and the knowledge that the Sox players were watching the playoffs from their La-z-Boys, just like the Cubs stiffs.

Tim Anderson is a Top 50 prospect in all of baseball. Not witness protection. He is also younger than Schwarber.