ESPN rates Cubs farm system #1, Sux at #12

Frank Coztansa · **Posted:** Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:45 pm

One Post wrote:

Let me ask this again, and hopefully for the last time. What did those 21 more wins over the last three years gain for the Sox? I've already made the point that all of the wins the Sox have accumulated in excess over the Cubs since 2012, all came in 2012. In the draft the following year, the Cubs took Bryant, the Sox took some guy that is in the minor league baseball equivalent of the witness protection program.

This is certainly very intelligent.

Apologist · **Posted:** Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:02 pm

Kirkwood wrote:

One Post wrote:

Frank Coztansa wrote:

The Sox have rebuilt theirs from the ruins in a quicker time frame, all the while not intentionally sacrificing big league wins.

Let me ask this again, and hopefully for the last time. What did those 21 more wins over the last three years gain for the Sox? I've already made the point that all of the wins the Sox have accumulated in excess over the Cubs since 2012, all came in 2012. In the draft the following year, the Cubs took Bryant, the Sox took some guy that is in the minor league baseball equivalent of the witness protection program.

When you sacrifice the future, you want to gain something for the present. In 2012 the present gain was 85 wins and the knowledge that the Sox players were watching the playoffs from their La-z-Boys, just like the Cubs stiffs.

Tim Anderson is a Top 50 prospect in all of baseball. Not witness protection. He is also younger than Schwarber.

Tim Anderson would probably be up this year on half the teams in baseball. Alexei is a top-10 MLB SS whether one wants to believe that or not.

This might also be a bad time to lament that the former regime drafted Jared Mitchell 2 spots ahead of Mike Trout. Hahn and his boys have had a huge hole to dig out of.

This is just my opinion, but Frank's issue is that he can't frame any sort of intelligent discussion of his team's management without going after the other teams fans. There's no reason to do that, and it just perpetuates the tropes about meathead Sox fans having an engrained inferiority complex.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater · **Posted:** Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:04 pm

good dolphin wrote:

and over the next 3 years, who do you think will have the better record?

I would put my money on the Sox.

What kind of pictures ya gotz on your money?

Apologist · **Posted:** Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:07 pm

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:

good dolphin wrote:

and over the next 3 years, who do you think will have the better record?

I would put my money on the Sox.

What kind of pictures ya gotz on your money?

One Post · **Joined:** Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:28 am **Posts:** 4034

Apologist wrote:

Tim Anderson would probably be up this year on half the teams in baseball. Alexei is a top-10 MLB SS whether one wants to believe that or not.

Bryant would definately be up this year on all 30 MLB teams. Someone in the pennant race would have called him up last year. #1 prospect and #50 prospect are light years away in terms of talent and MLB readiness.

One Post · **Joined:** Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:28 am **Posts:** 4034

Frank Coztansa wrote:

One Post wrote:

Let me ask this again, and hopefully for the last time. What did those 21 more wins over the last three years gain for the Sox? I've already made the point that all of the wins the Sox have accumulated in excess over the Cubs since 2012, all came in 2012. In the draft the following year, the Cubs took Bryant, the Sox took some guy that is in the minor league baseball equivalent of the witness protection program.

This is certainly very intelligent.

It is just a simple question Frank. Given the choice of trading Tim Anderson and 20 (completely meaningless) wins from the 2012 Sox ledger in exchange for Kris Bryant, would you do the deal?

Rod · **Posted:** Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:49 pm

One Post wrote:

Strange, I thought the goal here was to win the World Series, or at least have a shot at winning the World Series (i.e. playoffs)?

I don't know what your goal is. Mine is to enjoy watching my favorite team play baseball. And they're much more enjoyable to watch winning at a .520 clip than .400. Just because some fucking cretin on the radio repeats, "ALL. THAT. MATTERS. IS. WINNING. A. CHAMPIONSHIP." ad nauseam doesn't really make that a fact.

One Post wrote:

JORR, I hate to break it to you, but you wasted the same year of your life in 2012 with the Sox that I did with the Cubs.

I didn't waste my time. I watched a damn good baseball team. They weren't the '27 Yankees. If you measure the value of your time based on the Cubs being that good, I suggest you turn in your fan card immediately.

One Post wrote:

In the below choice, JORR would be the dunce taking option #2.

Would you rather:

A. Suck for five years, win a WS in year six, then suck for the next 4; or
B. Win 85 games and not make the playoffs for ten straight years.

That might be germane if someone actually had such a choice to make.

One Post wrote:

Also, not for nothing, why don't you point out where I said that Kris Bryant and the Cubs are going to win multiple championships? It should be easy, just use the quote function. Just as a tip, don't waste your time looking because I didn't say it. Make up shit that people say on your own time.

The Cubs themselves have said they are going to win multiple championships. Shit, motherfucker, I bet you have a "IT'S GONNA HAPPEN" sign under your bed.

Nas · **Posted:** Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:52 pm

One Post wrote:

Nas wrote:

What's the point you're making? The Cubs have a better farm system? I agree. Considering it would be organizational suicide for the Sox to tank 3 years in a row I believe their current ranking of 12 is great.

Nas, I'm going to disagree wholeheartedly here. Saying a total rebuild would be organizational suicide is false. Organizations with much crappier fan bases have engaged in total overhauls and not committed suicide. If the Marlins could do what they did and survive, the Sox could shoot 10% of the fans that come into the Cell this year and survive as an organizaion.

I mean this is comparable to the nonsense that Cubs fans say when they proclaim the Cubs organization needs jumbotron revenue to be competitive. Again, that is complete bullshit, like the Cubs need jumbotron revenue to compete with the Reds.

It's not the same One Post. Even when the Sox are competitive they struggle to put asses in the seats. Jerry likes to make sure his partners are happy and not struggle to get 5000 people in the stands like Miami. Both the Cubs and Sox made the right moves IMO.

Nas · **Posted:** Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:11 pm

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minor ... ders003tim

One Post wrote:

Frank Coztansa wrote:

The Sox have rebuilt theirs from the ruins in a quicker time frame, all the while not intentionally sacrificing big league wins.

Let me ask this again, and hopefully for the last time. What did those 21 more wins over the last three years gain for the Sox? I've already made the point that all of the wins the Sox have accumulated in excess over the Cubs since 2012, all came in 2012. In the draft the following year, the Cubs took Bryant, the Sox took some guy that is in the minor league baseball equivalent of the witness protection program.

When you sacrifice the future, you want to gain something for the present. In 2012 the present gain was 85 wins and the knowledge that the Sox players were watching the playoffs from their La-z-Boys, just like the Cubs stiffs.

I am just assuming you don't know who he is even though you've posted his name and continue to reference him. Tim Anderson is on track to join the Sox later this year and he'll definitely be here next season. http://www.baseball-reference.com/minor ... ders003tim

SomeGuy · **Posted:** Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:19 pm

Nas wrote:

I think that's great for the Sox. Especially considering they didn't go into full tank mode.

Exactly.

Rick Hahn has gotten it it done without any fanfare or local radio clowns sucking him off and running cover for him. That #1 ranking for the Cubs should be for being #1 in busts. What a shame.

He created a plan, he found the weak spots and he made his moves. Very workmanlike, very blue collar, very White Sox.

White Sox get to the playoffs before the Cubs do.

Big Chicagoan · **Posted:** Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:23 pm

Everyone here seems to feel that their team did it right and is going to win this year while the other team did it wrong. How about we just wait to see how this plays out over the next year or two, then start acting like know-it-all ass clowns?

Either team could lose 100 games this year, regardless of what "great moves" they have made this off season.

Rod · **Posted:** Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:26 pm

Big Chicagoan wrote:

Everyone here seems to feel that their team did it right and is going to win this year while the other team did it wrong. How about we just wait to see how this plays out over the next year or two, then start acting like know-it-all ass clowns?

Either team could lose 100 games this year, regardless of what "great moves" they have made this off season.

I think a lot of guys would have to get hurt for that to happen. On either side of town.

Nas · **Posted:** Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:39 pm

Big Chicagoan wrote:

Everyone here seems to feel that their team did it right and is going to win this year while the other team did it wrong. How about we just wait to see how this plays out over the next year or two, then start acting like know-it-all ass clowns?

Either team could lose 100 games this year, regardless of what "great moves" they have made this off season.

You're wrong. I said both teams made the right decision for their organization and most Sox fans haven't criticized the Cubs farm system.

good dolphin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm **Posts:** 82152

Rodon is almost Bryant's equal after only about 10 professional games. The sox even know how to lose better

spanky · **Posted:** Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:30 pm

good dolphin wrote:

Rodon is almost Bryant's equal after only about 10 professional games. The sox even know how to lose better

Oh by the way
viewtopic.php?f=129&t=91894

One Post · **Joined:** Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:28 am **Posts:** 4034

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

One Post wrote:

Strange, I thought the goal here was to win the World Series, or at least have a shot at winning the World Series (i.e. playoffs)?

I don't know what your goal is. Mine is to enjoy watching my favorite team play baseball. And they're much more enjoyable to watch winning at a .520 clip than .400. Just because some fucking cretin on the radio repeats, "ALL. THAT. MATTERS. IS. WINNING. A. CHAMPIONSHIP." ad nauseam doesn't really make that a fact.

Glad to know your goal is to watch your favorite team win baseball games. If that is your goal, just watch all the games from 2012 on a video loop, you will have your coveted .520 winning percentage. Play patty cake with Frank.

Judging by your posts here you don't enjoy watching your team at all because you consistently post in the forum of another team. To me, that isn't someone enjoying their team, it is a dumbass with an inferiority complex.

Scorehead · **Posted:** Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:22 am

One Post wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

One Post wrote:

Strange, I thought the goal here was to win the World Series, or at least have a shot at winning the World Series (i.e. playoffs)?

I don't know what your goal is. Mine is to enjoy watching my favorite team play baseball. And they're much more enjoyable to watch winning at a .520 clip than .400. Just because some fucking cretin on the radio repeats, "ALL. THAT. MATTERS. IS. WINNING. A. CHAMPIONSHIP." ad nauseam doesn't really make that a fact.

Glad to know your goal is to watch your favorite team win baseball games. If that is your goal, just watch all the games from 2012 on a video loop, you will have your coveted .520 winning percentage. Play patty cake with Frank.

Judging by your posts here you don't enjoy watching your team at all because you consistently post in the forum of another team. To me, that isn't someone enjoying their team, it is a dumbass with an inferiority complex.

Cubs envy.

One Post · **Joined:** Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:28 am **Posts:** 4034

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

I didn't waste my time. I watched a damn good baseball team.

The 2012 Sox were a "damn good team".

Well I agree that they were a team, but where we differ is on the definition of either "damn" "good" or both.

If that team was so good, why didn't they make the playoffs? If that team was so good, why didn't it make the playoffs in the easiest era to make the playoffs in MLB history?

One Post · **Joined:** Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:28 am **Posts:** 4034

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Would you rather:

A. Suck for five years, win a WS in year six, then suck for the next 4; or
B. Win 85 games and not make the playoffs for ten straight years.

That might be germane if someone actually had such a choice to make.

[/quote]

Well you kind of make that choice when you continue to throw plaudits at the feet of the 202 sox. And when you talk about the superior value of an 85 win non-playoff team in comparison to a 65 win non-playoff team.

One Post · **Joined:** Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:28 am **Posts:** 4034

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

One Post wrote:

Also, not for nothing, why don't you point out where I said that Kris Bryant and the Cubs are going to win multiple championships? It should be easy, just use the quote function. Just as a tip, don't waste your time looking because I didn't say it. Make up shit that people say on your own time.

The Cubs themselves have said they are going to win multiple championships. Shit, motherfucker, I bet you have a "IT'S GONNA HAPPEN" sign under your bed.

Yeah on this one you either have some anger displacement (I think we have a winner here) or are just have no reading comprehension at all. You indicated that I claimed the Cubs would win multiple championships, I asked you to quote me on that. Unsurprisingly you could not quote me, but somehow attributed some nebulous "the Cubs themselves" quote to me. So either you think I work for he Cubs, or are just a lying dumbass. I'm putting my chips on dumbass.

Also, not for nothing but please link to an article where a member of the Cubs front office guaranteed multiple championships. Thanks in advance for posting no link, because the guarantee isn't out there.

JOOR = the king of the message board bullshit.

One Post · **Joined:** Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:28 am **Posts:** 4034

good dolphin wrote:

Rodon is almost Bryant's equal after only about 10 professional games. The sox even know how to lose better

To echo what the Good Dr. said, I'm interested in this bet and my friend Dr. Ben Franklin and a dozen of his twin brothers are interested in riding shotgun.

One Post · **Joined:** Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:28 am **Posts:** 4034

Nas wrote:

One Post wrote:

Nas wrote:

What's the point you're making? The Cubs have a better farm system? I agree. Considering it would be organizational suicide for the Sox to tank 3 years in a row I believe their current ranking of 12 is great.

Nas, I'm going to disagree wholeheartedly here. Saying a total rebuild would be organizational suicide is false. Organizations with much crappier fan bases have engaged in total overhauls and not committed suicide. If the Marlins could do what they did and survive, the Sox could shoot 10% of the fans that come into the Cell this year and survive as an organizaion.

I mean this is comparable to the nonsense that Cubs fans say when they proclaim the Cubs organization needs jumbotron revenue to be competitive. Again, that is complete bullshit, like the Cubs need jumbotron revenue to compete with the Reds.

It's not the same One Post. Even when the Sox are competitive they struggle to put asses in the seats. Jerry likes to make sure his partners are happy and not struggle to get 5000 people in the stands like Miami. Both the Cubs and Sox made the right moves IMO.

I don't think we disagree much on this, but my point is that if what the Marlins did didn't result in organizational suicide, then the Sox sucking for a few years isn't going to result in Jerry and the fellas panhandling on Diversey.

good dolphin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm **Posts:** 82152

One Post wrote:

good dolphin wrote:

Rodon is almost Bryant's equal after only about 10 professional games. The sox even know how to lose better

To echo what the Good Dr. said, I'm interested in this bet and my friend Dr. Ben Franklin and a dozen of his twin brothers are interested in riding shotgun.

That is non responsive to the quote. The quote you used is analysis based on rankings. Rodon is only a few games into his professional career and is already the 12th ranked prospect.

Were you responding to my three year prediction?

THE INQUISITOR · **Posted:** Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:00 am

good dolphin wrote:

One Post wrote:

good dolphin wrote:

Rodon is almost Bryant's equal after only about 10 professional games. The sox even know how to lose better

To echo what the Good Dr. said, I'm interested in this bet and my friend Dr. Ben Franklin and a dozen of his twin brothers are interested in riding shotgun.

That is non responsive to the quote. The quote you used is analysis based on rankings. Rodon is only a few games into his professional career and is already the 12th ranked prospect.

Were you responding to my three year prediction?

OP welcome to the world of subdivision math where 12 is almost equal to 1

Keyser Soze · **Joined:** Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:15 pm **Posts:** 16923

good dolphin wrote:

Rodon is almost Bryant's equal after only about 10 professional games. The sox even know how to lose better

It's also interesting that the Sox 2nd round pick Spencer Adams (44th overall) is only 4 spots behind Kyle Schwarber who was taken 4th overall. I still can't believe Adams fell that far and signed for slot.

Rod · **Posted:** Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:06 am

Scorehead wrote:

One Post wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

One Post wrote:

Strange, I thought the goal here was to win the World Series, or at least have a shot at winning the World Series (i.e. playoffs)?

I don't know what your goal is. Mine is to enjoy watching my favorite team play baseball. And they're much more enjoyable to watch winning at a .520 clip than .400. Just because some fucking cretin on the radio repeats, "ALL. THAT. MATTERS. IS. WINNING. A. CHAMPIONSHIP." ad nauseam doesn't really make that a fact.

Glad to know your goal is to watch your favorite team win baseball games. If that is your goal, just watch all the games from 2012 on a video loop, you will have your coveted .520 winning percentage. Play patty cake with Frank.

Judging by your posts here you don't enjoy watching your team at all because you consistently post in the forum of another team. To me, that isn't someone enjoying their team, it is a dumbass with an inferiority complex.

Cubs envy.

Could you two genuises kindly explain what exactly there might be for a Sox fan to envy or feel inferior about regarding the Cubs?

good dolphin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm **Posts:** 82152

THE INQUISITOR wrote:

good dolphin wrote:

One Post wrote:

good dolphin wrote:

Rodon is almost Bryant's equal after only about 10 professional games. The sox even know how to lose better

To echo what the Good Dr. said, I'm interested in this bet and my friend Dr. Ben Franklin and a dozen of his twin brothers are interested in riding shotgun.

That is non responsive to the quote. The quote you used is analysis based on rankings. Rodon is only a few games into his professional career and is already the 12th ranked prospect.

Were you responding to my three year prediction?

OP welcome to the world of subdivision math where 12 is almost equal to 1

Here is where your house of cards falls, detail for me the objective difference between the #1 and #12 prospect.

Rod · **Posted:** Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:08 am

One Post wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

I didn't waste my time. I watched a damn good baseball team.

The 2012 Sox were a "damn good team".

Well I agree that they were a team, but where we differ is on the definition of either "damn" "good" or both.

If that team was so good, why didn't they make the playoffs? If that team was so good, why didn't it make the playoffs in the easiest era to make the playoffs in MLB history?

I would respectfully submit that a Cub fan likely isn't the best authority to consult on what a good baseball team looks like.

bigfan · **Posted:** Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:18 am

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

One Post wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

I didn't waste my time. I watched a damn good baseball team.

The 2012 Sox were a "damn good team".

Well I agree that they were a team, but where we differ is on the definition of either "damn" "good" or both.

If that team was so good, why didn't they make the playoffs? If that team was so good, why didn't it make the playoffs in the easiest era to make the playoffs in MLB history?

I would respectfully submit that a Cub fan likely isn't the best authority to consult on what a good baseball team looks like.

Please.......respectfully...

3 year bet on the table and I got CRICKETS from the S Side

Rod · **Posted:** Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:26 am

bigfan wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

One Post wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

I didn't waste my time. I watched a damn good baseball team.

The 2012 Sox were a "damn good team".

Well I agree that they were a team, but where we differ is on the definition of either "damn" "good" or both.

If that team was so good, why didn't they make the playoffs? If that team was so good, why didn't it make the playoffs in the easiest era to make the playoffs in MLB history?

I would respectfully submit that a Cub fan likely isn't the best authority to consult on what a good baseball team looks like.

Please.......respectfully...

3 year bet on the table and I got CRICKETS from the S Side

Who knows what's going to happen in three years? As much as people drink Cubbie Kool-Aid I'm sure we could all find better odds than what you're offering.

ESPN rates Cubs farm system #1, Sux at #12

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