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 Post subject: Re: Vince Coleman !!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:56 pm 
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For reference

1. Chase Utley (12, 35) 88.535 L
2. Mike Trout (4, 22) 87.931 R
3. Alexi Casilla (9, 29) 87.912 B
4. Jayson Werth (12, 35) 87.234 R
5. Carlos Beltran (17, 37) 86.389 B
6. Craig Gentry (6, 30) 86.364 R
7. Jarrod Dyson (5, 29) 85.714 L
Jack Perconte (7) 85.714 L
9. Kazuo Matsui (7) 85.000 B
10. Eric Byrnes (11) 84.868 R
11. Jason Bay (11) 84.821 R
12. Nate McLouth (10, 32) 84.713 L
13. Pokey Reese (8) 84.706 R
14. Tim Raines (23) 84.696 B
15. Jacoby Ellsbury (8, 30) 84.592 L
16. Eric Davis (17) 84.096 R
17. Jason Kipnis (4, 27) 83.810 L
18. Henry Cotto (10) 83.333 R
19. Willie Wilson (19) 83.292 B
20. Chris Getz (7) 83.178 L
21. Alcides Escobar (7, 27) 83.117 R
22. Barry Larkin+ (19) 83.114 R
23. Tony Womack (13) 83.066 L
24. Davey Lopes (16) 83.010 R
25. Shane Victorino (11, 33) 82.963 R
26. Stan Javier (17) 82.828 B
27. Jimmy Rollins (15, 35) 82.664 B
28. Doug Glanville (9) 82.353 R
29. Drew Stubbs (6, 29) 82.123 R
30. Ichiro Suzuki (14, 40) 81.711 L
31. Carl Crawford (13, 32) 81.597 L
32. Willy Taveras (7, 32) 81.590 R
33. Julio Cruz (10) 81.473 B
34. David Hulse (5) 81.176 L
35. Franklin Gutierrez (9) 81.053 R
36. Brian Hunter (10) 80.997 R
37. Joe Morgan+ (22) 80.964 L
38. Vince Coleman (13) 80.947 B
39. Alex Rodriguez (20, 38) 80.905 R
40. Brett Gardner (7, 30) 80.889 L
41. Carlos Gonzalez (7, 28) 80.882 L
42. Rickey Henderson+ (25) 80.758 R
43. Dave Roberts (10) 80.731 L
44. Eric Young (6, 29) 80.702 B
45. Roberto Alomar+ (17) 80.612 B
46. Andy Van Slyke (13) 80.592 L
47. Ben Revere (5, 26) 80.556 L
48. Jose Reyes (12, 31) 80.389 B
49. Ian Kinsler (9, 32) 80.258 R
50. Mickey Mantle+ (18) 80.105 B
Rank Player (yrs, age) SB % Bats
51. Coco Crisp (13, 34) 80.054 B
52. Carlos Gomez (8, 28) 80.000 R
53. Will Venable (7, 31) 79.866 L
54. Johnny Damon (18) 79.843 L
55. Lenny Dykstra (12) 79.832 L
56. Rickie Weeks (11, 31) 79.747 R
57. Ozzie Smith+ (19) 79.670 B
58. Enzo Hernandez (8) 79.630 R
59. Brian Roberts (14) 79.609 B
60. Kenny Lofton (17) 79.540 L
61. Gary Redus (13) 79.506 R
62. Cameron Maybin (8, 27) 79.487 R
63. Rajai Davis (9, 33) 79.373 R
64. Paul Molitor+ (21) 79.370 R
65. Jordan Schafer (5, 27) 79.231 L
66. Orlando Cabrera (15) 79.121 R
67. Michael Bourn (9, 31) 79.028 L
68. R.J. Reynolds (8) 78.986 B
69. Jeff Stone (8) 78.947 L
70. Emilio Bonifacio (8, 29) 78.846 B
71. Luis Aparicio+ (18) 78.816 R
72. Marquis Grissom (17) 78.716 R
73. Derek Jeter (20) 78.681 R
74. Desmond Jennings (5, 27) 78.571 R
Amos Otis (17) 78.571 R
76. Barry Bonds (22) 78.473 L
77. Kirk Gibson (17) 78.453 L
78. Jose Altuve (4, 24) 78.443 R
79. Curtis Granderson (11, 33) 78.313 L
Gary Thurman (9) 78.313 R
81. Everth Cabrera (6, 27) 78.161 B
82. Mike Cameron (17) 78.158 R
83. Aaron Boone (12) 78.102 R
84. Alan Wiggins (7) 78.065 B
85. Max Venable (12) 78.049 L
86. Devon White (17) 77.928 B
87. Chico Walker (11) 77.907 B
88. Tommy Harper (15) 77.863 R
89. Rudy Law (7) 77.816 L
90. Joe Carter (16) 77.778 R
Mike Felder (10) 77.778 B
92. Chuck Knoblauch (12) 77.672 R
93. Miguel Cairo (17) 77.654 R
94. Angel Pagan (9, 32) 77.604 B
95. Bob Dernier (10) 77.580 R
96. Cliff Floyd (17) 77.487 L
97. Alfonso Soriano (16) 77.480 R
98. Ryan Braun (8, 30) 77.473 R
Denard Span (7, 30) 77.473 L
100. Jake Wood (7) 77.451 R


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 Post subject: Re: Vince Coleman !!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:01 pm 
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I just want to point out the Cubs gave up on 3 elite base stealers.

Everyone remembers Lou Brock. Can you name the other two?

Answer below.








































Billy North and Miguel Dilone. Both excelled at SB in Oakland.

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 Post subject: Re: Vince Coleman !!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:04 pm 
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That list doesn't pass the eye test.

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 Post subject: Re: Vince Coleman !!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:06 pm 
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jimmypasta wrote:
I just want to point out the Cubs gave up on 3 elite base stealers.

Everyone remembers Lou Brock. Can you name the other two?

Eric Young
Jerome Walton

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 Post subject: Re: Vince Coleman !!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:12 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
raines probably from a SABR perspective, but he never came close to coleman in attempts and he was on base way more often. If you told coleman to only pick his spots he'd a been 80 for 85. what does that prove? you gotta get 100 to be even in the conversation.


I would disagree with that. There are only about ten 100 steal seasons in the modern era. I think Coleman and Henderson have half of them. I don't think that speaks to their greatness as much as the fact that they ran a whole lot. Not that they weren't great. Each guy stole at about an 81 percent clip. I don't think Raines or Wilson ever got 100 in a season, but they both stole at a high percentage (near 85%) and were certainly prolific enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Vince Coleman !!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:28 pm 
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stolen base wins per PA

Name SBWins/PA
Vince Coleman 0.012948074
Bill Lange 0.012551953
Hugh Nicol 0.011843137
Billy Hamilton 0.011273734
Rickey Henderson 0.010692342
Arlie Latham 0.010397227
Tim Raines 0.009778936
Willie Wilson 0.009534688
Davey Lopes 0.009237057
Sam Mertes 0.008961792
Max Carey 0.008662953
Julio Cruz 0.008584948
Curt Welch 0.008179793
Bob Bescher 0.008072769
Otis Nixon 0.008017241
Walt Wilmot 0.007958716
Tom Brown 0.007883158
Harry Stovey 0.007596604
Ron LeFlore 0.007512315
Frank Chance 0.007413218

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 Post subject: Re: Vince Coleman !!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:30 pm 
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jimmypasta wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
He's a real firecracker!

Image


Wasn't that when he was on the Mets getting on the team bus after a game at Wrigley?


Apparently not Wrigley, but everything else checks out. Why the hell did I think he did it during a game from the dugout? I'm old and dumb.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/07/26/sports/baseball-a-tossed-firecracker-a-cloud-on-coleman.html

Vince Coleman, the Mets' left fielder, threw a firecracker from a parked car at Dodger Stadium late Saturday afternoon, and the Los Angeles Fire Department is investigating whether the incident was connected to injuries reported by three fans who had attended the game.

Eric Davis, the Dodgers' left fielder, said Coleman was sitting in Davis's blue Cherokee Jeep after the Dodgers' 5-4 victory Saturday when he threw the firecracker.

A 33-year-old woman, an 11-year-old boy and a 1-year-old girl were subsequently treated for injuries at local hospitals, according to Jim Wells, a spokesman for the arson division of the Los Angeles Fire Department. The department was investigating the incident today, Wells said. He declined to identify Coleman or anyone else as the subject of the investigation, but Davis said that both he and Coleman had been interviewed by authorities.

If the injuries were related to the firecracker blast, Wells said, authorities could file charges as early as Monday.

In describing the incident, Davis said that Coleman was 20-25 feet from a crowd of people when he threw the firecracker. He said the crowd was behind a chain-link fence and that Coleman did not throw the firecracker in anger or with intent to injure. Coleman declined to comment before today's game, in which he played and which the Mets won, 4-0.

Wells said the woman, Cindy Mayhew, of Covina, Calif., apparently aggravated an existing ear injury as a result of the firecracker blast. Her husband drove her to White Memorial Medical Center, and a hospital spokesman said she was admitted at 5:45 P.M. Saturday and released at 7:40 P.M.

"They sought their own medical attention, and we did not transport them," Wells said. "The fire department is conducting an investigation. There are no suspects I've been informed of at this time." The Injuries

"She had ringing in the ears, and she was dizzy," her husband, Steve, told television station KTTV in Los Angeles Saturday night. "In her worst situation, when her disorder acts up, she goes into a seizure."

The unidentified 1-year-old, according to Wells, suffered second-degree burns to her cheek, an injured right finger and a possible eye injury. The 11-year-old suffered a minor abrasion on his leg. He said both children were treated at local hospitals and released.

The incident is the latest problem to arise in Coleman's troubled three-year tenure with the Mets. He spent much of the 1991 and 1992 seasons on the disabled list, primarily with hamstring injuries. He directed a profane outburst at coach Mike Cubbage in 1991 that was widely publicized and damaged Bud Harrelson's authority as manager. Last year, Coleman engaged in an on-the-field altercation with then-Manager Jeff Torborg.

Following Saturday afternoon's game here, Coleman had walked to the Dodger Stadium player-parking lot behind left field with Davis and two Mets teammates, Bobby Bonilla and Anthony Young. They were about to take two cars to Davis's house for a barbecue, and according to Davis, there were fans behind the enclosed parking lot shouting for their autographs.

None of the players stopped to sign, according to Davis. He said Bonilla and Coleman climbed into his blue, tinted-window 1991 Cherokee Jeep, and that Coleman, in the front seat, threw a firecracker while the automobile was still parked.

"Yeah, I saw an incident," Davis said before today's game. "He threw a firecracker out of a car. He didn't throw it in front of a crowd of people. Those people are behind a gate, 20 feet away from my car."

Coleman, also approached before the game, used profane language in refusing comment. "Get from my locker," he said. When pressed, he said, "What did I say? You know better. Get from my locker."

Bonilla also refused comment. He took the nameplate from his locker, turned it around and wrote, "Don't Ask!!!!" on it.

Young, meanwhile, commented briefly. "I was in the first car," the Met pitcher said. Asked whether the players were being heckled as they walked, he said. "Yes. The whole thing is stupid."

Davis said about 30 persons were at the barbecue when he received a call from Dodger General Manager Fred Claire. He said Claire asked him about the reported injuries, and that Davis told him the players were unaware there had been any.

"I was very shocked," Davis said. Asked to describe Coleman's reaction, Davis said: "He thought it was a joke. We all did."

"There was no intent or anger, or anything like that," Davis said. He also said the heckling did not lead to Coleman's action. "Guys get heckled every day when you come to the ball park, and when you leave. This might be because we didn't sign autographs. Could be." Davis and Coleman Questioned

Asked what sort of firecracker Coleman lit, Davis said, "Don't know. I'm not an expert. They weren't mine. They weren't in my jeep. You take it from there.

"It was a firecracker. It's not like we're sitting in the car plotting, like to blow up a plane or anything. It wasn't a conspiracy. We was laughing about the firecracker. Every time you light a firecracker, you laugh. At least I do."

Both Davis and Coleman were questioned by lawyers and authorities before the game. The Mets also held a closed-door meeting, and, according to a player, Gerry Hunsicker, the team's vice president of baseball operations, told the players "not to mess with firecrackers." Several weeks ago, at a game at Shea Stadium, an unidentified Met player tossed a string of firecrackers behind a group of reporters who were interviewing Young.

"We've talked about it," said Dallas Green, the Mets' manager. "It's not very professional, and they know that. I don't think you'll see that again, or hear about that again."

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 Post subject: Re: Vince Coleman !!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:36 pm 
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What the fuck is a "stolen base win"?

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 Post subject: Re: Vince Coleman !!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:39 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
What the fuck is a "stolen base win"?


component of WAR. how many wins/losses attributable to stolen base efforts. but like I said that's gonna be biased to the nervous nellies who would only steal when the pitchers pants fell down.

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 Post subject: Re: Vince Coleman !!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:05 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
Let me teeach you how to steal a base and go first to 3rd...

First, be real fast!
Next, steal the bases!

Always very tough for guys with superior ability to teach guys how to do things. Not saying he cant, but didnt the Astros get rid of Coleman as 1B coach? Many times guys like coleman just like to be around the game, they dont end up being great coaches. Many , many , many guys fit that bill....jury is still out on Hinske as an example.


Yeah, you probably should have listened to the interview. Coleman kept extensive book on every pitcher, and can still recall details. He went into some detail about how much more than just being fast goes into base stealing. And he's a riot. He would make for infinitely more entertaining radio than is Cooper.


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 Post subject: Re: Vince Coleman !!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:59 am 
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Coleman said a player needs to be smart. And trust his instinct.
Neither of which any Chicago baseball player has.


C'est la vie.

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