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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:32 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
to not have him on opening day is a clear statement that you are not doing everything to win THIS year, despite management statements otherwise

It really cannot be interpreted any other way.

Doing "everything to win this year" would have meant the Cubs had to sign Lester, Shields, Scherzer and several other high profile free agents.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:33 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
Screw Boros. Theo is doing the right thing.

Yes for the Cubs he is, for the player no. Now the question is, does it piss Bryant off enough that he won't sign long term with the club?

I'm going to think its not going to matter one way or the other


I agree with that. If the Cubs give him the most money, he'll sign back with them.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:33 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
Screw Boros. Theo is doing the right thing.

Yes for the Cubs he is, for the player no. Now the question is, does it piss Bryant off enough that he won't sign long term with the club?

I'm going to think its not going to matter one way or the other

Ok, and I believe it could affect future negotiations.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:35 am 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
Screw Boros. Theo is doing the right thing.

Yes for the Cubs he is, for the player no. Now the question is, does it piss Bryant off enough that he won't sign long term with the club?

I'm going to think its not going to matter one way or the other

Ok, and I believe it could affect future negotiations.


I don't think there's ever been a Boras client who didn't simply sign the deal for the most money. Guys that had other considerations, like a wife that wanted to take less money to live in a particular city, have had to fire Boras to get it done.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:35 am 
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IMU wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
to not have him on opening day is a clear statement that you are not doing everything to win THIS year, despite management statements otherwise

It really cannot be interpreted any other way.

Doing "everything to win this year" would have meant the Cubs had to sign Lester, Shields, Scherzer and several other high profile free agents.


great thought

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:35 am 
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I really don't think Bryant gives a shit one way or another. He could still be politically correct, and state that he would love to force Theo's hand, etc etc etc.

So far in the media, he seems like a chill Southern California kid that doesn't mind missing the cold as weather in the first couple weeks of the season.
good dolphin wrote:
IMU wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
to not have him on opening day is a clear statement that you are not doing everything to win THIS year, despite management statements otherwise

It really cannot be interpreted any other way.

Doing "everything to win this year" would have meant the Cubs had to sign Lester, Shields, Scherzer and several other high profile free agents.


great thought

The great ones do tend to come from the Cubs fans recently.

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Last edited by IMU on Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:36 am 
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I see a lot of complaining from some people in this thread that have been unconvinced any Cubs prospect will be a great player...

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:36 am 
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IMU wrote:
I really don't think Bryant gives a shit one way or another. He could still be politically correct, and state that he would love to force Theo's hand, etc etc etc.

So far in the media, he seems like a chill Southern California kid that doesn't mind missing the cold as weather in the first couple weeks of the season.

"so far in the media"...you obviously don't read Gordon Wittenmeyer.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:38 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
IMU wrote:
I really don't think Bryant gives a shit one way or another. He could still be politically correct, and state that he would love to force Theo's hand, etc etc etc.

So far in the media, he seems like a chill Southern California kid that doesn't mind missing the cold as weather in the first couple weeks of the season.

"so far in the media"...you obviously don't read Gordon Wittenmeyer.

No, I don't. I have internet.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:38 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
Screw Boros. Theo is doing the right thing.

Yes for the Cubs he is, for the player no. Now the question is, does it piss Bryant off enough that he won't sign long term with the club?

I'm going to think its not going to matter one way or the other


I agree with that. If the Cubs give him the most money, he'll sign back with them.


Bryant will want to play for his hometown team after Bigfan moves the White Sox to Las Vegas.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:39 am 
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12 days off the roster will likely save them $10-$20 million down the road. easy choice.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:40 am 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
It's nice that Boras is concerned about the team doing well and not his client getting to F/A any sooner.

I dont think he's even pretending to care about the team, is he?

He's just doing his job.


BTW, this is not correct

The Cubs, knowing that Bryant is unlikely to accept a long-term extension before reaching free agency

Almost every good young player (Longoria, Trout, Howard) accepts a long term extension to get off the pay scale.

Boras clients usually don't.

Already addressed. They often do. Jered Weaver, Elvis Andrus, CarGo all signed early


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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:40 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
to not have him on opening day is a clear statement that you are not doing everything to win THIS year, despite management statements otherwise

It really cannot be interpreted any other way.


I agree.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:41 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
12 days off the roster will likely save them $10-$20 million down the road. easy choice.


IT WAS A BASEBALL DECISION.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:41 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
12 days off the roster will likely save them $10-$20 million down the road. easy choice.

but they'll have money to burn down the road.


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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:42 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
It's nice that Boras is concerned about the team doing well and not his client getting to F/A any sooner.

I dont think he's even pretending to care about the team, is he?

He's just doing his job.


BTW, this is not correct

The Cubs, knowing that Bryant is unlikely to accept a long-term extension before reaching free agency

Almost every good young player (Longoria, Trout, Howard) accepts a long term extension to get off the pay scale.

Boras clients usually don't.

Already addressed. They often do. Jered Weaver, Elvis Andrus, CarGo all signed early

I don't think naming 3 guys means they often do.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:42 am 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
Screw Boros. Theo is doing the right thing.

Yes for the Cubs he is, for the player no. Now the question is, does it piss Bryant off enough that he won't sign long term with the club?

I'm going to think its not going to matter one way or the other

Ok, and I believe it could affect future negotiations.

Any examples where that has happened before?

Boras clients take the most money. If the team that drafted him pays the most, that is where his clients go.


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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:42 am 
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The better get a damn good backup infielder and middle reliever with that money in 2022.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:43 am 
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IMU wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
IMU wrote:
I really don't think Bryant gives a shit one way or another. He could still be politically correct, and state that he would love to force Theo's hand, etc etc etc.

So far in the media, he seems like a chill Southern California kid that doesn't mind missing the cold as weather in the first couple weeks of the season.

"so far in the media"...you obviously don't read Gordon Wittenmeyer.

No, I don't. I have internet.

asked and answered. Either he or his dad complained to said newspaper writer. Which quickly got swept under the rug. I agree with the move...but if the money's even when it's time to re-sign, I'd expect another team besides the Cubs to have a good shot.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:44 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
[Cubs president Theo Epstein countered, “Kris Bryant's development path has absolutely nothing to do with ownership, period. As with all our baseball decisions, I will determine where Kris begins the 2015 season after consulting with members of our baseball operations staff. Comments from agents, media members and anybody outside our organization will be ignored.”


ts appropriate but completely disengenuous

What part do you think is disingenuous?
[/quote]

The first sentence. The second sentence as well, for that matter. I cannot tell you the number of times Theo has conflated business operation and baseball operations in open discussion. Now they are separate. He's not lying but he isn't speaking the truth

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:45 am 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boras clients usually don't.

Already addressed. They often do. Jered Weaver, Elvis Andrus, CarGo all signed early

I don't think naming 3 guys means they often do.[/quote]
How many examples would you require?

Obviously, its not some crazy rare outlier. It happens on a regular basis. Maybe 70% of his clients hit free agency. If that is the case, then saying it like it's a foregone conclusion is not correct.


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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:46 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boras clients usually don't.

Already addressed. They often do. Jered Weaver, Elvis Andrus, CarGo all signed early

I don't think naming 3 guys means they often do.

How many examples would you require?

Obviously, its not some crazy rare outlier. It happens on a regular basis. Maybe 70% of his clients hit free agency. If that is the case, then saying it like it's a foregone conclusion is not correct.[/quote]
I guess we would have to find all of his clients and find out how many signed early contracts buying out years of free agency and how many didn't. Are you sure that Jered Weaver signed a early contract that bought out free agent years?
By the way, I hope Bryant's shoulder falls off.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:47 am 
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pittmike wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
12 days off the roster will likely save them $10-$20 million down the road. easy choice.


IT WAS A BASEBALL DECISION.

You require complete transparency out of your GM's, Mike?


If so you must have HATED Kenny Williams


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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:49 am 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
I guess we would have to find all of his clients and find out how many signed early contracts buying out years of free agency and how many didn't. Are you sure that Jered Weaver signed a early contract that bought out free agent years?
By the way, I hope Bryant's shoulder falls off.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=new-yorkmets&id=68037&wjb=

The point is, to say it never happens or is extremely rare is not correct.


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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:52 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
[Cubs president Theo Epstein countered, “Kris Bryant's development path has absolutely nothing to do with ownership, period. As with all our baseball decisions, I will determine where Kris begins the 2015 season after consulting with members of our baseball operations staff. Comments from agents, media members and anybody outside our organization will be ignored.”


ts appropriate but completely disengenuous

What part do you think is disingenuous?


The first sentence. The second sentence as well, for that matter. I cannot tell you the number of times Theo has conflated business operation and baseball operations in open discussion. Now they are separate. He's not lying but he isn't speaking the truth[/quote]
Just for argument's sake, I dont think ownership matters. I believe Theo would do the same if he was still Red Sox GM. Its not a Ricketts issue.

I dont see how you can say the second sentence isnt true.

You think he WONT make the decision the baseball operations staff?


Either way, that is the way you respond to Boras, imo


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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:52 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
I guess we would have to find all of his clients and find out how many signed early contracts buying out years of free agency and how many didn't. Are you sure that Jered Weaver signed a early contract that bought out free agent years?
By the way, I hope Bryant's shoulder falls off.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=new-yorkmets&id=68037&wjb=

The point is, to say it never happens or is extremely rare is not correct.

I didn't say that, I used the word usually.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:55 am 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
I guess we would have to find all of his clients and find out how many signed early contracts buying out years of free agency and how many didn't. Are you sure that Jered Weaver signed a early contract that bought out free agent years?
By the way, I hope Bryant's shoulder falls off.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=new-yorkmets&id=68037&wjb=

The point is, to say it never happens or is extremely rare is not correct.

I didn't say that, I used the word usually.

Im referring to the statement in the article.

And that's bad karma to wish ill on people like that.


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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:55 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
I guess we would have to find all of his clients and find out how many signed early contracts buying out years of free agency and how many didn't. Are you sure that Jered Weaver signed a early contract that bought out free agent years?
By the way, I hope Bryant's shoulder falls off.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=new-yorkmets&id=68037&wjb=

The point is, to say it never happens or is extremely rare is not correct.

I didn't say that, I used the word usually.

Im referring to the statement in the article.

And that's bad karma to wish ill on people like that.

:D

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:58 am 
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pittmike believes that all GM's should tell the truth at all times and when they dont, fans of the team should call them out for their dishonesty.


I disagree with this philosophy.


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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:02 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
pittmike believes that all GM's should tell the truth at all times and when they dont, fans of the team should call them out for their dishonesty.


I disagree with this philosophy.

If that is what he was saying, I agree with you. Hold your cards close.

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