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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:33 pm 
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I started watching with interest in the late 80's, so I'm going to start with that timeframe.

I know Old Man Wirtz was in his own world, but what was up with the Pulford love affair? Was Pully ever good at his job or was just there solely to be a stooge for ownership?

What led to bringing in Mike Keenan and was he the true mastermind behind those early 90's stacked teams? Additionally, I know he wears out his welcome early, but what led to Keenan's departure?

While Keenan was here, how close was that Lindros (draft day?) trade to happening? Also, did the Hawks know what they had in Hasek and why did they ultimately choose Balfour over him?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:22 am 
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Haha, you're giving me way too much credit! A lot of this is before my time. You'll have to ask older fans.

Pulford was loyal. Hockey Paxson. I believe Keenan's departure was expedited to make sure that they didn't lose then-up-and-coming Darryl Sutter to another organization. Then they lost him anyway. I don't know how close a Lindros trade got, but never as close as the Rangers got, who made a deal with the Nordiques only for the Nords to go back on it and go back to the Philly trade they had originally sketched out. If you can track down the Lindros trade tree, it's something else. It's the NHL-transaction version of half the world having Genghis Khan's DNA.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:26 am 
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If I remember correctly, the choice wasn't really between Hasek and Belfour. The Hawks were super high on Jimmy Waite- the guy who is now their goalie coach- and they thought he was the future in the net.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:09 am 
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From my recollection, Hasek was a big surprise.

We used to play the Electronic Arts hockey video game in the dorm room. It was the version that was made after the Hawks and Pens were in the cup. Of course, we always played those two teams. Well, anytime the guy playing the Pens would score, we would pull Belfour (as a joke) and put in Hasek. Hasek was terrible in that game because he was a back-up goalie. It was a running joke about pulling Belfour just because you were pissed off.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:21 am 
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I remember Hasek always being highly regarded from the time he came over. I may have the time frame wrong, but the Hawks seemed to believe Waite was the next Ken Dryden.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:38 am 
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denisdman wrote:
From my recollection, Hasek was a big surprise.

We used to play the Electronic Arts hockey video game in the dorm room. It was the version that was made after the Hawks and Pens were in the cup. Of course, we always played those two teams. Well, anytime the guy playing the Pens would score, we would pull Belfour (as a joke) and put in Hasek. Hasek was terrible in that game because he was a back-up goalie. It was a running joke about pulling Belfour just because you were pissed off.

NHLPA '93? Players but no team logos? I think that was the last time you could play as Minnesota in a video game.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:40 am 
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Pulford was Wirtz's Hawk Harrelson. Nobody trusted him except Wirtz. I do remember he did a fine job as a Hawks interim HC after firing various HC's. The one guy that was hired that was stunning was Alpho Sunnahan (?) who couldn't speak English! :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:41 am 
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Barry Rozner's tales of Alpo Suhonen, Finnish Playwright And Hockey Coach are always funny. "Home. Wot ees...home?"

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:50 am 
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When Hasek was with the Hawks, he looked like he was tied to the goalpost. Horrible puck handler.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:24 am 
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I vaguely remember the story of then Hawks coach Bob Murdoch (the guy right before Keenan) getting locked in a room before or during the intermission of a playoff game.

Murdoch was Rick Renteria before Rick Renteria


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:31 am 
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I guess I will step in...as the OLD TIME HAWKS FAN....

Yes, I was a fan back in the day. I listened to games on the radio...I had Swirsk on Sunday nights talking about it..etc...

Pully watched the money!!!!!!!!!!!! And he understood some hockey...but he watched the money.

Wirtz owned the Stadium. He got rent from the Bulls, Circus and Concerts....THE HAWKS were an EXPENSE...Pully was in charge of that expense preventing them from making money from the Stadium. Pully could do whatever he wanted....just dont blow the budget...$ Bill trusted him to do that....

Having a guy you trust to run your company is a value only the company owner can place on it...Wirtz placed it very high.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:07 am 
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Matches Malone wrote:
I started watching with interest in the late 80's, so I'm going to start with that timeframe.

I know Old Man Wirtz was in his own world, but what was up with the Pulford love affair? Was Pully ever good at his job or was just there solely to be a stooge for ownership?

Pully was a good GM back in the day. The Hawks had fair to excellent teams even with tight financial controls from the Old man. At the end, he was a GM at the request of the the Old man and Peter. He is still on the payroll as a reward for his hard work and loyalty.

What led to bringing in Mike Keenan and was he the true mastermind behind those early 90's stacked teams? Additionally, I know he wears out his welcome early, but what led to Keenan's departure?

No he was not the guy who was the mastermind. He took over from Pulford after most of those players were brought in by him. He lost his job in a power struggle with Pulford who had a higher position in the organIzation. They wanted to get Darryl Sutter in as the coach and Keenan had opened his mouth and said he wanted to be GM. So...

While Keenan was here, how close was that Lindros (draft day?) trade to happening? Also, did the Hawks know what they had in Hasek and why did they ultimately choose Balfour over him?


The Lindros stories are more legend then reality. The Hawks chose to keep Belfour over Hasek. It was the absolute right choice at the time. Hasek developed years later. Eddie just partied too much.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:11 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Barry Rozner's tales of Alpo Suhonen, Finnish Playwright And Hockey Coach are always funny. "Home. Wot ees...home?"


Remember the Alpo Suhonen show hosted by Tommy Williams? That was interesting.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:12 am 
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Part of me almost feels bad for Peter Wirtz but not really. I'm sure he's doing just fine.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:14 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
If I remember correctly, the choice wasn't really between Hasek and Belfour. The Hawks were super high on Jimmy Waite- the guy who is now their goalie coach- and they thought he was the future in the net.

yep. It wasn't so much Hasek and Belfour as Hasek and Waite

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:51 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Part of me almost feels bad for Peter Wirtz but not really. I'm sure he's doing just fine.



He is doing fine and is anything but a sympathetic character. Running the team for the Old man appeared to be harder than it should have been.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:58 pm 
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Thanks for the info. Now onto the more recent past.

Dale Tallon
How and why did he get the gm job? I know his longtime history, but was there always the belief he was a personnel guy in the waiting? Who made the call on putting him in charge? Looking back, what's the final say on his talent evaluation skills? Were his draft picks slam dunks or did he "discover" talent? Lastly, I know he got into trouble with the whole salary cap fiasco but was that going to happen regardless or was that his undoing?

The Bowmans
I know Stan was in the organIzation but was always being groomed to take over? Who brought in his Dad? Should Tallon be pissed or was this all laid out from the beginning? Is this all Stan or does Scotty have a lot a say? Why was Quenville available in the first place, shouldn't some other team have picked him up? I mean every time over the years I would turn on a game there was Ken Hitchcock but Q was on the shelf? What gives?

The Players
The core, what was expected from them when drafted? I know high picks are projected to be difference makers but as we all know, (Ty Griffen I'm looking at you) that doesn't always work out. At the time, were all these guys consensus picks or did fans and "experts" want someone else instead?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:29 pm 
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Dale did Edzo's job for a long ass time after retiring from hockey. He was on the combo radio/tv thing.
In the late 90's he went on to Director of player personnel. When they fired Pully he took over, naturally.
Worth looking up sometime is Havlat going all nuts on John McDonough for "firing" Dale over the restricted/unrestricted free agents thing (specifically Versteeg??? IIRC??) . He said the team loved Dale and that Dale created the team that eventually won some cups (he did). Made it sound like letting Dale go was some kind of ego thing.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:43 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Dale did Edzo's job for a long ass time after retiring from hockey. He was on the combo radio/tv thing.
In the late 90's he went on to Director of player personnel. When they fired Pully he took over, naturally.
Worth looking up sometime is Havlat going all nuts on John McDonough for "firing" Dale over the restricted/unrestricted free agents thing (specifically Versteeg??? IIRC??) . He said the team loved Dale and that Dale created the team that eventually won some cups (he did). Made it sound like letting Dale go was some kind of ego thing.


Yeah I'm hip to Dale's career. Give me some credit man! I keed, I keed.

I remember Havlat being upset when he left. So was Marty let go because of that or was he always going to be too expensive to keep? How could Tallon have been so bad at managing the cap?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:45 pm 
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Matches Malone wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Dale did Edzo's job for a long ass time after retiring from hockey. He was on the combo radio/tv thing.
In the late 90's he went on to Director of player personnel. When they fired Pully he took over, naturally.
Worth looking up sometime is Havlat going all nuts on John McDonough for "firing" Dale over the restricted/unrestricted free agents thing (specifically Versteeg??? IIRC??) . He said the team loved Dale and that Dale created the team that eventually won some cups (he did). Made it sound like letting Dale go was some kind of ego thing.


Yeah I'm hip to Dale's career. Give me some credit man! I keed, I keed.

I remember Havlat being upset when he left. So was Marty let go because of that or was he always going to be too expensive to keep? How could Tallon have been so bad at managing the cap?

He was already gone when he went off on Jesus McDonough. For the record I don't like McDonough either.
He was gone because he was pricy and ouchy. LOTS of ouchy,.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:46 pm 
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The final call on dales talent evaluation skills is, in my opinion, excellent.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:55 pm 
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Matches Malone wrote:
Thanks for the info. Now onto the more recent past.

Dale Tallon
How and why did he get the gm job? I know his longtime history, but was there always the belief he was a personnel guy in the waiting? Who made the call on putting him in charge? Looking back, what's the final say on his talent evaluation skills? Were his draft picks slam dunks or did he "discover" talent? Lastly, I know he got into trouble with the whole salary cap fiasco but was that going to happen regardless or was that his undoing?

Dale was leaving once McDonough got here. Two egos and only one of them knew hockey. And he had a higher position. He worked as a scout and assistant GM before being named GM. Like a lot of "old School" guys he is and was very loyal to others. Sometimes too much so. Jack Skille, hoorible. Toews, Kane, when many others thought he should have taken Kyle Turris, Cam Barker, really bad and Dylan Olsen who is still playing somewhere I think. Last but not least is Kyle Beach a talented sociopath who could never control his temper enough to play in the NHL. Dale signed some good players, like Hossa,, yes that was HIS signing and traded for Sharp. Duncan Keith and Seabrooke were scouted by Dale and drafted on his recommendation. So, the entire core is his.

The Bowmans
I know Stan was in the organIzation but was always being groomed to take over? Who brought in his Dad? Should Tallon be pissed or was this all laid out from the beginning? Is this all Stan or does Scotty have a lot a say? Why was Quenville available in the first place, shouldn't some other team have picked him up? I mean every time over the years I would turn on a game there was Ken Hitchcock but Q was on the shelf? What gives?

Stan Bowman has been enhanced by help from his dad. But he paid his dues learning the game on his own as well. He was with the hawks for seven years before his dad came. McDonough hired Scotty. And i think Dale knew at that point he would be gone someday. He gets the blame for the offer sheet snafu when in reality, it was Stan Bowman's job to send them. Q left the Avs on his own according to many. His contract was ending and he didn't like the way the organization was heading. The Hawks signed him as a scout and replaced Savvy with him shortly after.


The Players
The core, what was expected from them when drafted? I know high picks are projected to be difference makers but as we all know, (Ty Griffen I'm looking at you) that doesn't always work out. At the time, were all these guys consensus picks or did fans and "experts" want someone else instead?



Kane was not a consensus pick but a pick em between him and Turris. Toews was the best available at three. Skille was an awful pick, as was Kyle Beach.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:58 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Kane was not a consensus pick but a pick em between him and Turris. Toews was the best available at three. Skille was an awful pick, as was Kyle Beach.


So they could have very easily Clippered themselves Elgin Baylor style?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:59 pm 
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Matches Malone wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Kane was not a consensus pick but a pick em between him and Turris. Toews was the best available at three. Skille was an awful pick, as was Kyle Beach.


So they could have very easily Clippered themselves Elgin Baylor style?

Sam Bowie?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:03 pm 
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Matches Malone wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Kane was not a consensus pick but a pick em between him and Turris. Toews was the best available at three. Skille was an awful pick, as was Kyle Beach.


So they could have very easily Clippered themselves Elgin Baylor style?



Yes.

Btw, Dale was also a big proponent of international players in the NHL. He scouted Europe early and often.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:04 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Kane was not a consensus pick but a pick em between him and Turris. Toews was the best available at three. Skille was an awful pick, as was Kyle Beach.


So they could have very easily Clippered themselves Elgin Baylor style?

Sam Bowie?


No Bowie was Portland. You really have to eFF things up when the guy picked in front of you is Olajuwon and the one after is Jordan. The Elgin Baylor led Clippers had what seemed like the 1st of 2nd pick forever and could not draft the right guy to save their lives.

Where would the Hawks be had they went with Turris or not selected Toews?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:06 pm 
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Matches Malone wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Kane was not a consensus pick but a pick em between him and Turris. Toews was the best available at three. Skille was an awful pick, as was Kyle Beach.


So they could have very easily Clippered themselves Elgin Baylor style?

Sam Bowie?


No Bowie was Portland. You really have to eFF things up when the guy picked in front of you is Olajuwon and the one after is Jordan. The Elgin Baylor led Clippers had what seemed like the 1st of 2nd pick forever and could not draft the right guy to save their lives.

Where would the Hawks be had they went with Turris or not selected Toews?



Not having three Stanley Cups. 8)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:08 pm 
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trivia Question for you Matches. CH prolly knows this.

Which hawks defenseman was once traded for Kyle Turris...

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:09 pm 
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One thing I will tell you as far as draft fuck ups in hockey is these two. And they are sucking ass because of it. One the Penguins took Staal over Toews. Then recently they let Saad a hometown kid go to Hawks with the pick right after them.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:11 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
trivia Question for you Matches. CH prolly knows this.

Which hawks defenseman was once traded for Kyle Turris...

Image
OH OH OH!!!
I know!!! Do I get to answer?

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