Again, I don't think you remember just how good Harper was in that short window before he got seriously injured.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Jordan's place in history is secure. Pippen can't impact that. Barkley just stated what I'd always known about Pippen. Pippen was never a guy that would get you 30 a night. That was the one flaw in his game. He couldn't get his own shot. That's what it takes to be an upper echelon scorer.

He was never a guy that you could run a clear out for and feel comfortable that he'd get you a bucket or even a good shot.

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To illustrate the greatness of Jordan even when measured LeBron James you need to look at his performance against the Pistons in 89 and 90. That was an All time great team which Golden State is not. In 89 he took the Pistons to 6 six games and in 90 he took them to seven. They were NBA Champs both yrs. Look at the Bulls roster during those yrs. It was worse than Cleveland's even without Irving and Love.

The Jordan Rules were born during these yrs. The Pistons set their defense up to stop Jordan unlike Golden State that guarded James man to man throughout. If they'd tried that with Jordan he would have murdered them. There was hand checking then also and you could play much more physical. Once again Jordan's place in history is very secure. Pippen or James can't touch that.

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I remember Ron Harper. I became a basketball fan in 1987. I wasn't a casual fan either. I could name the 12th man on every team. Ron Harper was an all star at his peak and a very good player for a long time. Scottie was the best all around player at his peak and should have won the MVP that season.

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Barkley wanted to play with Scottie. Saying Scottie couldn't get his own shot is foolish. He handled the ball half the time. He wasn't a good shooter but he could easily get his own shot and he could score if he wanted to. Ask Mashburn about that. There was a game against the Pacers IIRC where he and Jordan scored 40.

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You're proving my point. No one is saying Pippen was as great as Jordan. Saying he's an all time great doesn't change Jordan's status as the GOAT.

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GO BEARS!!!

If Scottie was so great at getting his own shot why did he average less points per game than Doug Moe?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Ron was a much better tipper as well.

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Scottie averaged close 20 until the twilight of his career. He did this while playing with Jordan. Besides Scottie wasn't a guy that looked to score. Saying that a guy that handled the ball and was 6'7" and had a 7' wingspan couldn't get his own shot is silly. You would have to have never watched a Bulls game to believe that.

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No he couldn't. He never was a go to scorer kind of guy. The highest avg. of his career was 21 points a game. You can't use the Barkley wanted to play with him thus I'm validated. LeBron James wants to play with James Jones. Michael Jordan wanted to play with Charles Oakley.

Scottie Pippen was never a guy that you'd say go get me a bucket. That was not his game. He was a great player though. He was for me a 6'7 Garnett. That is why Tim Duncan was always better than Garnett though about 12yrs ago I argued that point with Goff and Bernstein also. Great players but not top 20-30 all time great players. That's another level and that's why Jordan's place is secure.

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Well, that's not right. He averaged 20 three or four times in a 17 year career. Here's something you must understand about the NBA- guys who can score, do. You act like Scottie just didn't want to score. That couldn't be further from the truth and it's proven out by the 1.8 seconds. He just wasn't a guy most people would call a number one scoring option. When he got away from Jordan he fell into that role by default at times, but he was never really good at it.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

All you have to do is watch the way he scored his points. He rarely broke guys down off the dribble to create his shot. In those instances he had to do it he struggled. It's not hard watch the game.
Points per game is not a true indicator either. It just means that he could score. There are a number of scorers who struggled to create their own shot most notably Reggie Miller. Kay Thompson scored 57 in a game this year and he struggles to get his own shot too.

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Yeah, there's a difference between a shooter and a real premium scorer. Miller and Thompson were/are shooters. But Pippen wasn't a shooter or a scorer. His reputation is certainly not based on his offensive capabilities. He was fine as the second option to the greatest scorer (non-center) of all time.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Scottie Pippen for Nas is the new Jay Cutler.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

There was a guy taken in 87 that skill wise offensively was better than Scottie Pippen. He didn't have the career Pippen had but if you watch him play he was as talented if not more talented offensively and almost as good defensively. He will never be considered on anyone's all time anything. Pippen at best was only slightly more skilled than this guy.

Nas if you are the fan you proclaim to be you would know immediately to whom I'm referring. If not you should be able to ascertain from the 87' draft list. LIGHT EM UP CHICAGO!

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I'm gonna say right off the top of my head you're talking about McKey.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I said he averaged close to 20. He did until he was like 33.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Go fuck yourself.

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Yep he could do everything Pippen could do. He was almost his equal defensively and more skilled offensively. Not a shooter either but he had a game on him. The numbers won't bare that out but if you watched games you'd see it. What he didn't have was a motor. Never had it. Pippin acquired it in large part due to Jordan McKey never did. McKey survived in the NBA off pure skill.

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There was a time there where I thought McKey was ready to take the next step and be a real star in the league, but it just never happened.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Scottie wasn't a great scorer or shooter. That wasn't his game. He could score if he needed to or had a point to prove (Mashburn game). None of this has anything to do with Jordan. Correctly crediting Pippen for the Bulls success doesn't change Jordan's status. Why is that so hard for Bulls fan?

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He had the Paul Pierce type game. Looked like he was moving slow or playing a YMCA type game but he was effective. Didn't have that "it" that most great players have.

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Jordan won his first playoff series when Scottie arrived. Bulls clinched when Scottie was inserted in the starting lineup. If Jordan is a 10 I don't think Scottie is worse than a 7.

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I think it had to do with motor. That guy could play but he was one of the more passive players that I've ever seen. He should have been a perennial all star given his skill level which was better than Pippens offensively. He was close to Pippen defensively but he never had that extra gear that would have made him a great player.

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McKey was not close to Pippen defensively.

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GO BEARS!!!

These thoughts on Scottie as a player are ridiculous. You can love Jordan and Scottie. No one says that you have to choose. LeBron isn't a threat to Jordan so there is no need to rewrite history.

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GO BEARS!!!

Pippen was a real top defender, but so was McKey. And he was a bigger guy. McKey really could guard a center, at least for a stretch to give the real big guy a blow.

I'll just say this. If Pippen wasn't on all those championship teams with Jordan, I don't think anyone would think of him any differently than they do Sidney Moncrief.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Funny I was talking to your partner and the best comparison I had for Scottie was him. Obviously the success Scottie had and his will to win elevates him far above Sidney Moncrief. Reggie Miller is Dale Ellis without his success.

Edit: Pippen is an all time great defender. McKey was a really good defender that lacked the "it".

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GO BEARS!!!

You're the one comparing Pippen and Jordan. You introduced that portion of it into the discussion.

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I think the disconnect between your view and the view that LTG and I have is that what you call Pippen's "will to win", we call Michael Jordan.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don