But didn't you hear the psycho who runs Amazon claim that he knew nothing of any of this?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

and of course he's telling the truth!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

2 days? sounds like he's getting raped too! should be within 12 hours!

wow corporations are ruthless, what a shock

do you expect McDonalds to give the cows their beef comes from massages and mani/pedis too ?

White collar workers face varying levels of abuse by companies owing in part to their exempt status. However, unlike the blue collar factory workers, most of these workers are well compensated for their efforts and have significant opportunities to take their skills to a competitor. In a given industry, white collar workers are well aware of an employer's reputation in the market. Typically, the best paying companies have the harshest conditions. Everyone knows this. There are other companies offering much better work life balance.

In reading through all the stuff on Amazon, folks know what they are getting into when joining Amazon. It doesn't make Bezos & Co right for treating employees poorly. A lot of Amazon employees seem to like the culture.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

right
some people need constant discipline and guidance. they crave it

There are only so many jobs available in an economy. You are pretending like unemployment is at 0%.
The choice is between working at Amazon and eating.
Which is why they have a massive turnover rate and articles in the major newspapers about how they basically treat people as poorly as they possibly can.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You're missing the point. When a company like Amazon has success it redefines the paradigm for all workers. Do you think competitors and other businesses won't attempt to emulate the abuse of workers after it's been successful and no one has challenged it?

A corporation will pay its employees as little as possible and work them as hard as possible. That's the heart of capitalism. The only drag on it becoming a complete feudal system is Unionism.

Finally, you do realize your statement that "a lot of Amazon employees seem to like the culture" echoes what plantation owners said about their slaves, right?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Not to mention that Amazon, just like Wal-Mart, is likely violating many employment laws, but for some reason those laws goes mostly unenforced.

You can either complain about people who live on welfare and abuse the system or you can think that Amazon should be able to treat workers like new age indentured servants but you can't do both.

We need to take care of our lower income workers who are willing to put the work in and try hard. To be honest, if I had a choice between being on welfare and food stamps or working at Amazon I'd probably choose welfare.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

what low level/low skill type of job doesn't have a high turnover rate ?
i'm not necessarily defending Amazon here but I think most companies of that size & stature treat their low level employees like shit....

For high tech workers, the opportunities are almost limitless. There is massive competition for knowledge employees at Google, Apple, Yahoo, Amazon, Microsoft, Facebook, and the start-ups trying to reach those heights. You can leave the slave holder references out of this. Workers making well in excess of six figures should not be compared in such light.

There is no lowest common denominator for these workers. It is actually the opposite. Netflix is now offering unlimited family leave. It is a race to the top. Bigger signing bonuses. Longer vacations. More stock options. Lots of variable pay. Office perks like free food and games.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

care to come up with something more concrete here ?

denis said that "A lot of Amazon employees seem to like the culture".

Amazon has the second highest turnover rate of all Fortune 500 companies.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Actually, you can't. The cheapest labor is slave labor. If you make laws against it, corporations will either go where it's legal or run a domestic shop where they treat workers as fungible commodity. In the case of Amazon, it's the latter with their culling system. Culling? If the mere word in such a context doesn't outrage you, you have no humanity.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

So you are now switching the discussion to those making over $100k a year?

That is bizarre.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I read the entire NY Times article, and the employee rebuttal referenced by Bezos. Many of the folks that were quoted on record had left, but said they liked working there. These guys jump jobs because they can make a lot more somewhere else. Plus Amazon is a culture with very high expectations. The majority of the workforce is not a good fit for Amazon.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

I don't think that matters anyway. Just because a person has skills that allow them to command a $100,000 a year salary I don't think it gives an employer some right to control every hour of that worker's life.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Comparing white collar workers to slave labor is bizarre to me.

As a guy who hires people all the time and loses folks to competitors, I am well aware of the competitiveness of the white collar job market. These folks (by and large) have it very well. You guys should go back to championing for Wal Mart employees.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Yeah, the expectation that Jeff Bezos owns your ass and if you don't like it you can go put your resume on Larry Page's desk in a stack of 200,000 others.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

That's because, for whatever reason, you identify with the owner rather than the worker.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

The issue is not with executives and high tech workers. It is about the workforce in general. It's fine to think that being well compensated is a reason to not worry about working conditions(though, that has some flaws too) because those people truly can move to other jobs.
There are a lot of parallels here. How much do you think the guy loading the boxes at Amazon makes?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

high priced whores are not whores.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Rick the guy loading the boxes is hourly. So your concern for Bezos working them all night is not valid.

The folks in the Times article are white collar, exempt.


Rebuttal was good (but long).

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/amazonia ... ciubotariu

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Why is anyone championing for someone that does not want to be championed for? I read most of the article, and it seemed to focus on well-off, salaried office workers. Happy workers. If you accept the offer and take the job, then one has to assume you did your due diligence. If you did not, and find that the salary and benefits aren't worth your effort, or that you aren't cut out for the job, quit and go do something else.

This isn't slavery. Not one worker is forced to work at Amazon.

"Oh, but IMU, this is the company that offered them the most money!"

Well, did you think you didn't have to do anything for a generous salary? If you don't want to field an email at 7 PM ever, maybe Jiffy Lube has a position for you.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I'm not going to cry over a high paid tech worker who gets treated poorly at Amazon. They have options and can take care of themselves. They still deserve fair treatment but they have options.

I'm more concerned about the person who has to choose between a government check and Amazon. The work enviornment needs to be good enough to make that choice an easy one.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Clearly you've made up your mind.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

There's a lot of philosophy involved here. I have a friend who owns a small business and his viewpoints are very similar to those of denis. He sees the transaction between him and his employees as a day's work for a day's pay. When that employee works that two week stretch and cashes that check, they're square. Granted, that's a business philosophy that America was built on. But it's one that is managed top down and controlled by the 1%.

I happen to see it a little differently. Every day a man works for another man he is (or should be) building long term capital. Number 2 of the 14 "leadership principles" of Amazon is "Ownership" for God's sake! I guess in the case of Amazon that means Jeff Bezos wants you to act like an owner without deriving any actual benefits of ownership.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

As I've said, I don't care too much about the high tech workers, outside of the obvious workplace issues that no one should have to deal with.

However, regardless of what other justifications are made by some, it is company wide and low level employees deal with similar issues.

We need to start protecting our lower income workers who choose to work instead of just mooching off the government. Amazon is a prime offender, and has been for a long time.

Just think about what you are saying. Amazon employees get paid a lot of money to deal with this so no one should feel bad. Well, what about those who aren't paid well?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It's a great discussion. The NY Times article hit a nerve. I was pissed reading some of those stories as our company believes in treating folks fairly and work/life balance. In reading through all the commentary, I think article raised some good points but definitely exaggerated with anecdotal evidence. We have companies in the insurance industry with reputations like that. Folks go to those places for the higher pay and resume building, and then they move on. Those companies aren't doing anything illegal, but they are akin to going to a restaurant with bad customer service. I choose to go somewhere else.


You want bad treatment of employees, read Young Money about I Bankers. Wow.

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Hawaii (fuck) You