Is he the greatest QB of all-time? Clearly he's the greatest of his era. Does he need 1 more SB victory to secure the top spot?

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Yup. GOAT.

He likely is, though the legacy of the Patriots is going to haunt him.

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He's no Kyle Orton

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GBOAT!

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I rank him as he GOAT as he rises above THE GREAT CROWD (Montana, Elway and Bradshaw)...the seperation of time is a starting point, 2004 then 2014, is really impressive.

The vast different cast of recievers he has had is pretty amazing. During the Moss years they didnt even win a SB.

And remove one of the greatest catches in the history of the SB...and they probably win a 5th v Giants.

The guys vision and command of thr game is unmatched. He can hardly run, yet escapes blitzes.

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hmmmm that's a good question cuz he's pretty much the modern day equivalent of joe montana with all of the winning, but i don't think that everybody would necessarily say that joe montana was the best pure QB of all time, let alone his era. brady falls into that same scenario/situation with me.

personally, right now in terms of pure quarterbacking skill i'd prolly go with rodgers over him. i would say that when you add up all of the tangibles that aaron rodgers is a better quarterback than tom brady, however rodgers only has one super bowl and brady has... what, 4 now? i mean it's hard to argue with the argument "you play the game to win, therefore the guy who wins the most is truly all around the best" (somewhere JORR has a starting pitcher boner) however when it technically comes down to raw ability and making all of the throws and mobility to escape pressure and all of the things you can actually measure on the field, well then i'd take rodgers over brady.

[insert those IF YOU HAD TO WIN ONE GAME AND COULD CHOOSE ONE QUARTERBACK....and IF YOU PUT [QB #2] ON [QB #1 AKA THE WINNER]'S TEAM AND VICE VERSA WHAT WOULD THE RESULTS BE.... scenarios here]

so yeah brady is obviously in the team picture / mount rushmore / etc... i just dont know if i can call him the greatest quarterback of all time cuz when you start doing that you factor in way more games that are far less meaningful than playoff/superbowl games and it's basically personal preference if you want to say the mitigating factor/s is/are winning or raw abilities or whatever.

i don't think there's been any time in his long and storied career where brady was ever considered the no-doubt best quarterback in football, however through all of the different periods of his career he's priolly been top-3 or top-5 and there is something to be said about hanging around the upper echelon of QBs for such a long time, but does longevity or absolute peak ability matter more to you? with my fantasy sports background i tend to learn more towards the latter here.

so i'm going to say no here, but at the same time i am going to concede that depending on how we define the GOAT quarterback it technically could be tom brady if we lean heavily on winning/longevity as opposed to absolute peak ability levels.

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Is Brady even the best QB on the PATS roster at the moment?

No one eclipses Montana's performance against the Bengals in the Superbowl.

After Montana, it's Fouts, Marino, Elway, Plunkett, Favre and then maybe Brady.

He will always have the specter of cheating, and the inability to get a white pool cover, hanging over his head.

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hold on - dan fouts was better than tom brady? jim plunkett? for real?

Better release and arm than Brady, while surrounded by less talent. He was my idol back in the day. What can I say?

I would believe Fouts was better than Brady quicker than Montana. You all can just drop him out of the top 5 discussion altogether for my tastes.

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Great Fouts clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPUcsLRX4pA

dan fouts was surrounded with nothing but top receiving talent his whole career. i was actually a big fan of his back in the day, but to say he is even in the same realm of greatness as tom brady seems a stretch. his playoff passer rating of 70.0 also seems a bit on the not-so-clucth side.

Character counts and Brady is a whiner and a cheater. Fouts was tough as nails and played at a time when competition in the league was fiercest.

It's not even close that Fouts was better than Brady. You would not have seen a sloppy game like last night back in '80 and '81. I turned it off after the first half because the play was so bad.

For the next 5-10 years until Rodgers takes it away from him.

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10 More Wins

That would be nice, but his playoff failures keep on piling up.

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Much like other sports positions it is probably time to make a best qb and and best winner as a qb in separate lists.

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Oh my...

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NFL teams hardly even play defense any more. Rodgers or Brady never had to face the Bears 46 defense from '85 or the early 80's Raiders, Redskins and 49ers defenses, which were all great.

The Ravens defense and the Seahawks defense were/are 2 of the best ever. To do what Brady has done in the free agency era is unbelievable. He's had less offensive talent than anyone except probably Favre.

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Your anti-Brady bias is forcing you down paths you shouldn't have gone down.

Fouts was as big a whiner and crybaby as there was in football. The only person he didn't cry about was Charlie Joiner, and then only because it was widely accepted that Joiner was the far, far more established/respected player. As for the "tough as nails" claim, I have no idea what you are basing that on. He didn't take an excessive amount of punishment, he didn't have to. He also was quick to avoid pressure by firing passes into general areas which often got his receivers clobbered (Winslow) or forced acrobatic catches (John Jefferson). When they couldn't pull rabbits out their asses, he got really pissy & petulant.

He never was much of a team leader, and it was widely accepted that it was primarily Coryell and the receivers that did the magic. Fouts was great in that system, but not top ten/twenty-all time by any stretch, certainly not with his playoff record. Fouts was largely forgettable, at least in comparison to Don Coryell. You can't say the same about Montana or Brady.

I just find it funny that as proof of Fouts' greatness, you cite a mammoth two year stretch. Telling.

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True Nas but I will always give extra credit to the QB's prior to the modern lax pass interference calls and so on. Fouts should get credit for facing Lester Hayes and the like twice a year.

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And your guy, the Great Dan Fouts faced exactly one "great" defense, the Raiders.

The Orange Crush was old, I don't ever remember them playing a big game against the Steel Curtain (which was done by 81) and the Killer B's of Miami were a figment of NBC's imagination to trump up AFC games in the early 80's. And he still lost the big games.

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It always amazes me that Lester Hayes still gets mentioned. He wasn't an all-time great imo (hell Mike Haynes was far better) and like his partner Fred Belitnikoff needed all the Stickum he could find.

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It's more about the way the rules are. Bump and run is gone. Can't even touch the QB. Interference is called constantly.

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This is why Favre will probably always be in my top 5. What he was able to do in multiple eras and without 1 great receiver often gets overlooked.

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OK, so when Rodgers played a really good defense against Seattle in 2014 he lost twice, once in the regular season and then again in the post season. Neither GB nor the PATS played Seattle in 2013. The Pats didn't play Seattle in 2014 either, because the NFL didn't want Brady embarrassed.

This proves my point.