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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:08 am 
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Per CBS website, they have the Bears taking Goff at #2. The writeup -

Quote:
2. Chicago Bears -- Jared Goff, QB, California
The Bears are currently locked into a long-term deal with Jay Cutler, but if they're able to find a way out of that contract, Goff should be priority number one in the draft. The Cal passer might not have elite physical tools, but he's off-the-charts above the neck.


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The Cal passer might not have elite physical tools


Stop right there. Then, don't pick him with the #2 selection of the draft.

Here's another scouting report -

Quote:
The first word that comes to mind when watching him is "polished." Though I believe him to be an adequate physical specimen, he is not going to hurt you with his legs, nor is he going scare defenses with his arm talent. A very down-to-earth guy, he is likely to win over head coaches and general managers with his maturity.

Equally impressive are his intelligence and football IQ. From what I have gathered by listening to and reading interviews, he absolutely gives off the “film junkie” vibe. It is clear that he is an Xs and Os guy, and I think it is fair to label him as a student of the game.

Among the first things teams will notice when they pop in his tape is his clean mechanics. From his footwork to his delivery, it appears he has an edge on the vast majority of NFL hopefuls in this department.


Oh wait, sorry, that one was for Matt Barkley.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:01 am 
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I've seen a few mocks with the Bears choosing Cook at #1.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:08 am 
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For about 18 months Hackenberg was a top 2 guy. All of sudden 2-3rd rounder.

And you can google Matt Millers breakdown somewhere on Cook. Throws off his backfoot too much. Doesnt get behind it, so his strong arm plays in college, but veolicty doesnt play in the NFL. throw Jay C floaters off your back foot!

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:28 am 
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Unless somebody comes on like crazy, I don't want the Bears going near any of those QBs with a top 5 pick.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:31 am 
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G.O.P. wrote:
Surely, not every school runs the spread/option offense.
?



wish somebody would give that a go in the NFL. of course you'd need like 4 QBs as they'd get killed, but who cares, option QBs are sitting at home watching TV anyway. The only alternative is to sit around and moan that your team doesn't have one of the five QBs who can actually run an NFL offense.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:15 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
For about 18 months Hackenberg was a top 2 guy. All of sudden 2-3rd rounder.




And thats what the Bears should be looking to do this up coming draft: grab a QB in the 3rd round maybe even 2nd if someone incredible slides. None of these guys coming out are worth a 1st round top ten pick imo.


Take the best d-linemen or linebacker available with that 1st pick, grab the best O-linemen available with the 2nd pick. They fucked up by not doing that this year but need to do it in this up coming draft.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:17 pm 
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Clausen is the kind of QB that goes in the second round. :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:24 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Clausen is the kind of QB that goes in the second round. :lol:


I thought he sucked at Notre Dame. I'm really surprised he is still in the NFL.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:24 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Clausen is the kind of QB that goes in the second round. :lol:




Drew Brees went in the 2nd round.

I get your point tho; there are more Jimmy Clausens in the 2nd round than a Drew Brees

Still not worth reaching for a guy in the 1st just because it's a bad draft year for QB's. Draft elsewhere and get a player that will help your team with that pick.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:29 pm 
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If you look at all the really good teams in the NFL, they all have really good QB's and really good O and D lines (for the most part).

If that franchise QB isn't there at the top of the draft, move to those positions and make your top picks there (on the lines). If the Bears went with this philosophy, they'd have a consistently good team sooner rather than later. Most teams would if they followed that plan.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:30 pm 
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NME wrote:
And thats what the Bears should be looking to do this up coming draft: grab a QB in the 3rd round maybe even 2nd if someone incredible slides. None of these guys coming out are worth a 1st round top ten pick imo.
No. No. No.

You draft the best QB available(within reason). Otherwise, you'll be waiting around for 10 years for the next Andrew Luck, and then you won't get him.

Roll the dice and see what you can get.

It would be a great day if the Bears could get the person they consider the best available QB in the draft, even if they have to draft them with 3rd pick instead of 8th pick. That quarterback may be a colossal failure but it is worth it for the chance that they are elite.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:32 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
NME wrote:
And thats what the Bears should be looking to do this up coming draft: grab a QB in the 3rd round maybe even 2nd if someone incredible slides. None of these guys coming out are worth a 1st round top ten pick imo.
No. No. No.

You draft the best QB available(within reason). Otherwise, you'll be waiting around for 10 years for the next Andrew Luck, and then you won't get him.

Roll the dice and see what you can get.

It would be a great day if the Bears could get the person they consider the best available QB in the draft, even if they have to draft them with 3rd pick instead of 8th pick. That quarterback may be a colossal failure but it is worth it for the chance that they are elite.


You can live with a Dalton or Eli Manning, can't you?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:32 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:34 pm 
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G.O.P. wrote:
Where have all of the stud QB prospects gone? I mean guys who are known for their arms, and not their legs. Surely, not every school runs the spread/option offense.

Are they playing baseball?

Yep. :D


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:35 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
You can live with a Dalton or Eli Manning, can't you?
You'd rather have better than Dalton.

Eli was elite for a time though.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:39 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
NME wrote:
And thats what the Bears should be looking to do this up coming draft: grab a QB in the 3rd round maybe even 2nd if someone incredible slides. None of these guys coming out are worth a 1st round top ten pick imo.
No. No. No.

You draft the best QB available(within reason). Otherwise, you'll be waiting around for 10 years for the next Andrew Luck, and then you won't get him.

Roll the dice and see what you can get.

It would be a great day if the Bears could get the person they consider the best available QB in the draft, even if they have to draft them with 3rd pick instead of 8th pick. That quarterback may be a colossal failure but it is worth it for the chance that they are elite.


So, you're in favor of Goff at #2?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:43 pm 
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2011 was the exception to my rule that good teams win the Super Bowl.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:44 pm 
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The history of OL drafted in the top 5 isn't much better than that of QB's. Luke Joeckel, Jason Smith, Eric Fisher.... lots of busts there. Can't just recuse yourself from partaking in the QB lottery then act all smart going for the "safe" LT pick.

Myles Jack was a guy I thought was true #1 overall talent but that's over now.

Vernon Hargreaves is another guy, I don't know if it'd acceptable to take CB #1 overall but shit, it's not as if the Bears don't need one.

Or you take whichever QB you like and if it works it's contention for the next decade. If it doesn't, well it wont be an unfamiliar situation for the Bears anyways.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:46 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
2011 was the exception to my rule that good teams win the Super Bowl.


I don't think winning a Superbowl is indicative of being the best team of that year, let alone being the best team on the field during the actual game.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:54 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
So, you're in favor of Goff at #2?
Assuming he doesn't have a major fall during the season or at the combine I am.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:32 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
So, you're in favor of Goff at #2?
Assuming he doesn't have a major fall during the season or at the combine I am.


What would constitute a major fall? He isn't going to wow people with arm strength.

I suppose he could show wild inaccuracy but I doubt it. So, assuming he continues his current production level, shows up at the combine with above-average test/interview scores and shows an adequate arm with good accuracy, you'd go #2 with him......so to speak.

I'd prefer at least a little bit of elite physical skill from a QB going that high. I feel like his best attribute is the ability to look off and go through progressions. That's banking a lot of $$ and draft capital on a guy that is poised with an average arm.

I think he's a great option for a high 2nd round pick.

He seems like the type that will fall as things go into the offseason and scouts start to fall in love with physical attributes. Fales was a borderline 1/2 at one point in a strong QB draft.

Case in point -

Quote:
Fales throws a pretty ball with his touch and anticipation, but lack of arm strength shows often, especially on throws of 15-plus yards. He does an excellent job surveying the field to find an open target, seeing the field well with anticipation to make snap decisions. Fales will take chances downfield, leading to mistakes with his average arm strength. He is a quick release, rhythm passer with a high completion percentage in every outing.

One high-ranking NFL official on hand for San Jose State's March 26 pro day workout characterized Fales' scripted 52-play throwing session as "pretty damn good." Fales reportedly only missed on one pass the entire day -- a deep post that sailed just a bit long.

Fales won't be a fit for everyone, but projects as a NFL starter and possible top-30 pick, ideally suited for a NFL west coast offense that emphasizes multiple options and quick decisions in the short-to-intermediate passing game. But his lack of elite physical tools are clear and it will most likely keep several NFL teams from putting him high on their draft board.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:42 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
What would constitute a major fall? He isn't going to wow people with arm strength.

I suppose he could show wild inaccuracy but I doubt it. So, assuming he continues his current production level, shows up at the combine with above-average test/interview scores and shows an adequate arm with good accuracy, you'd go #2 with him......so to speak.

I'd prefer at least a little bit of elite physical skill from a QB going that high. I feel like his best attribute is the ability to look off and go through progressions. That's banking a lot of $$ and draft capital on a guy that is poised with an average arm.

I think he's a great option for a high 2nd round pick.

He seems like the type that will fall as things go into the offseason and scouts start to fall in love with physical attributes. Fales was a borderline 1/2 at one point in a strong QB draft.
How about a fall like Fales? :lol:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Case in point -

Quote:
Fales throws a pretty ball with his touch and anticipation, but lack of arm strength shows often, especially on throws of 15-plus yards. He does an excellent job surveying the field to find an open target, seeing the field well with anticipation to make snap decisions. Fales will take chances downfield, leading to mistakes with his average arm strength. He is a quick release, rhythm passer with a high completion percentage in every outing.

One high-ranking NFL official on hand for San Jose State's March 26 pro day workout characterized Fales' scripted 52-play throwing session as "pretty damn good." Fales reportedly only missed on one pass the entire day -- a deep post that sailed just a bit long.

Fales won't be a fit for everyone, but projects as a NFL starter and possible top-30 pick, ideally suited for a NFL west coast offense that emphasizes multiple options and quick decisions in the short-to-intermediate passing game. But his lack of elite physical tools are clear and it will most likely keep several NFL teams from putting him high on their draft board.


I'm not saying you draft a 6th round talent with the second pick.

With your hypothetical situation that no quarterback is given a first round grade I'd trade down to the middle or late part of the first round and draft them there then.

I'll put it another way. If a quarterback is available at #2 who wouldn't be considered a major reach I'd go for him. That may be Goff, or Cook, or David Blough, but you do it.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:09 pm 
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Let it all shake out. Just as there are talents out there that are being overappreciated, there are talents that are underappreciated. We'll get to know them after December.

As an aside, the NFL and Rahm will look pretty smart if the Bears have the #1 pick while the draft is hosted in this city.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:17 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Let it all shake out. Just as there are talents out there that are being overappreciated, there are talents that are underappreciated. We'll get to know them after December.

As an aside, the NFL and Rahm will look pretty smart if the Bears have the #1 pick while the draft is hosted in this city.


Until they take Kendall Fuller and everybody starts booing.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:28 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Unless somebody comes on like crazy, I don't want the Bears going near any of those QBs with a top 5 pick.



Agreed..I like Cook but not top 5 material. I'd likeva trade for E J. Manual from Buffalo.. He's behind Tyrod Taylor n I'm willing to give a 3rd and 6th for him.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:32 pm 
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312player wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Unless somebody comes on like crazy, I don't want the Bears going near any of those QBs with a top 5 pick.



Agreed..I like Cook but not top 5 material. I'd likeva trade for E J. Manual from Buffalo.. He's behind Tyrod Taylor n I'm willing to give a 3rd and 6th for him.

2 draft picks for EJ Manuel, have you lost your damn mind?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:37 pm 
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I think Manual can be a good starter, I'm not sure Buffalo would accept that trade..6th round pick is kinda useless..so its basically a 3rd .

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:39 pm 
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312player wrote:
I think Manual can be a good starter, I'm not sure Buffalo would accept that trade..6th round pick is kinda useless..so its basically a 3rd .

I don't think any draft pick is useless, go and look at Green Bay's roster and see how many 5th, 6th, 7th and undrafted free agents are on it. Probably would change your mind.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:17 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
NME wrote:
And thats what the Bears should be looking to do this up coming draft: grab a QB in the 3rd round maybe even 2nd if someone incredible slides. None of these guys coming out are worth a 1st round top ten pick imo.
No. No. No.

You draft the best QB available(within reason). Otherwise, you'll be waiting around for 10 years for the next Andrew Luck, and then you won't get him.

Roll the dice and see what you can get.

It would be a great day if the Bears could get the person they consider the best available QB in the draft, even if they have to draft them with 3rd pick instead of 8th pick. That quarterback may be a colossal failure but it is worth it for the chance that they are elite.




You and I had a similar disagreement last year too if I'm not mistaken -and my stance isn't going to change. 'Rolling the dice' with your best possible pick in the draft to land an impact player is terrible logic. If you want to 'roll the dice' in the NFL draft, you should do that kind of crap with later picks.

There is no Peyton Manning in this years draft. There is no Andrew Luck either. Its better to move to a different position and select a player that can come right in and have an immediate impact -I prefer D-line in the 1st round, way less things to evaluate with those players to know if they have potential to be good, but whatever.

The goal of each draft should be to go out and get guys that have a high probability of helping your team from day 1 -not finding guys to take a chance on. Its baffling to me how anyone could possibly feel this is the best option available with a high pick in an NFL draft.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:25 pm 
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America wrote:
The history of OL drafted in the top 5 isn't much better than that of QB's. Luke Joeckel, Jason Smith, Eric Fisher.... lots of busts there. Can't just recuse yourself from partaking in the QB lottery then act all smart going for the "safe" LT pick.



I'm assuming this is directed at my comments -you're missing my point, if so.


And the point being, you don't handcuff yourself to a pick you don't consider worth making in the 1st place. If there are no clear cut top QB's in this draft? Don't draft one with your top pick, move to the next most important building block (I feel the lines are the next most important in football after QB), or move to the next best player available.

That, and nothing can kill a team or set them back further than a busted top picked QB. Not a top picked O-linemen, not a top picked D linemen, nothing. A bad #1 picked QB can derail a franchise for years because of development and so on. With other positions you can shrug off shit decisions quicker -hard to type that with a straight face cheering for a team that's still marching Shea McClellan out as a starter, but it is what it is.

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