Are you serious or trolling? When you're wrong, which is quite often, you're invariably provided with a trolling cover. Matches agrees with me and I respect his basketball acumen, unlike yours.

The board version of a bully pulpit matters not, because the facts are on my side. In fact you were among the leaders of the Thibs is being screwed by GarPax, as I recall. Each of your half cocked theories were debunked. That's sort of normal though in your case.

Thibs will be hired as a coach. I'm not arguing that. This top 2 or 3 coach stuff has been proven to be fallacious. It's quite obvious at this point.

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Debunked by who? You? You've already said Hoiberg is a better coach. The facts are on my side. He's won at a higher clip in 5 years than nearly any coach in NBA history and he's done it without a superstar for 4 of the 5 years. He's done it with D.J. Augustine being his best offensive player. #Greatness #Top3 #GetThickerSkin

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X and O's wise, Thibs knows his stuff at least defensively. Each and every year though, the Bull struggled to score points come playoff time. His teams were always dead tired by the time the post season rolled around and I think that's a direct result of his regular season rotations.

There's more to coaching an NBA squad than simply game-planning wouldn't you agree?

There isn't a season his team underachieved. In the playoffs you need a star or go to player and the Bulls didn't have that for 4 of his 5 years. He got the most out of every team and contrary to popular belief the Bulls were much better offensively last year despite once again not having star player they could give the ball to.

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You keep saying top 2 or 3.

Carlisle
Popovich
Doc Rivers.

all better than Thibs.
How does that make him top 2 or 3?

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Doc Rivers isn't a top 5 coach. He's the most overrated coach in basketball. Carlisle is a great coach but Thibs is better. He does more with less.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

His team underachieved last yr. The Bulls talent last yr was better than Atlanta.

I can name 5 things wrong with Thibs as a coach.

1. Rudimentary offensive schemes.
2. Development of younger talent.
3. Coaching adjustments (failure to make them)
4. Micromanagement of game. Calls a set every time team has possession of the ball.
5. Rotations. Lack of consistent rotation. Jerking around of bench guys playing time.

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You are basing this largely on regular season success. I will never argue that it shouldn't be factored in, but great coaches make their hay in the playoffs. They will win a few series that they shouldn't have won. The only time Thibs has ever done that was against Brooklyn and was Brooklyn really all that good?

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Like pointed out before, the Thunder hired Donovan well before Thibs was fired. The Bulls over achieved under Thibs except for his last year, which rightly precipitated his dismissal. You don't go far without Rose. Period. The point about lack of talent development is laughable. Rose became a MVP, Noah a defensive MVP, Gibson a solid role player, and Butler an all star under Thibs watch.

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I will list three adjustments that I saw in last yrs playoffs. These were adjustments you would never see Thibs make. Two were by a rookie head coach.

Kerr inserted Iggy into starting lineup and placed Green at the center spot against Cleveland.

2. Kerr had Andrew Bogut guard Tony Allen during their series against Memphis.

3. McHale placed Josh Smith in the starting lineup against the Clippers. Houston was down 3-1 at the time and proceeded to win the last 3 games. Smith also came up big in those 3 games.

Thibs doesn't make those type of in game or game to game adjustments. That's but one of the reasons that I don't believe he is such an elite coach.

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Thibs was responsible for Butlers development? I guess all that time on the bench watching guys like Bellinelli play in front of him really served him well. Check all the DNPs and amount of minutes received during that pd. He only began playing once Deng was hurt. Rose was a number 1 pick that everyone knew would be good. Maybe not MVP good, but definitely perennial all star good.

As far as Billy Donovan goes, yes he was hired about a month before Thibs was fired. Why wouldn't the Thunder wait for Thibs to be fired before I hiring a coach if he so good? No one seems to be able to answer that question. Thibs eminent departure was not a secret by that point. The NBA was not clamoring for the services of Billy Donovan. Why not wait for at least the chance to hire the "second best coach in the league".?

New Orleans has the guy most people believe will be the best player in the league and yet they hire a retread coach that has never won anything. Isn't that an attractive job?

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Let's pump the brakes a bit on that train of thought.

Rose was the #1 pick in the draft.
Noah was emerging the year before under Coach Vinny. Do we credit him?
Butler only got a chance because of Deng's injury, otherwise he sees the court sparingly.

Coaches are responsible for optimizing the talents of their players. I'm certain Rose wouldn't be MVP under Vinny because the Bulls wouldn't be contenders and, thus, Rose's talents wouldn't have propelled the Bulls forward like they did under Thibs' superior coaching. Noah was an emerging player under Vinny, sure, but he matured under Thibs' system, became DPOY in Thibs' system, and even garnered MVP consideration in Thibs' system.

So Butler didn't play much while backing up an established all star in his prime. Should Thibs bench his 27 year old whatever all star starting forward to play a late round rookie draft pick?

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Ben Simmons is a liability: check
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2013 CSFMB ROY

I think Rose has a breakout season regardless of who's coaching him. He was that talented. Noah turned the corner prior to Thibs arrival but I'll most certainly give Thibs defensive schemes props in helping Noah win that Defensive Player of The Year award.

As for Butler, you don't bench Deng, but you don't run him into the ground either. There was no sane reason for Deng to be playing the amount of minutes he did regardless of who was behind him on the depth chart. A first round pick should see the floor, field or ice unless he's a complete disaster.

He didn't play Mirotic until Gibson was injured, but I'm sure he helped in his development also. I'm wondering how his lack of playing time was laughable also. Mirotic was regarded as the best player in Europe and it was obvious that he had talent. Thibs played him sparingly and he shined once Gibson became injured. Once Gibson returned his minutes were once again reduced significantly. I'm wondering how that is an example of development? The old adage of a player never getting better from watching applies in both the case of Butler and Mirotic.

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Jason Kidd is better too.

Also - my biggest gripes with Thibs were his pushing guys too hard in an attempt to win every possession of every game and playing guys too many minutes even during blow outs. I also agree with the notion that his rotations were inconsistent. Bench players would often follow up a strong game with a dnp. He seemed to enjoy playing head games.

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“Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.”- JD Vance
“My god, what an !diot.”- JD Vance tweet on Trump
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oh for the love of all things holy. There is no way Kidd is better than Thibs.

I am not saying Thibs is a top 2 or 3 coach, but he is better than Kidd.

I am willing to give Hoiberg a chance and time to see, but I really worry this is like the Bears getting rid of Lovie. Be careful what you wish for...

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

NBA Coach of the Year 2014-2015
Winner: Mike Budenholzer, Atlanta Hawks
Second: Steve Kerr, Golden State Warriors
Third: Jason Kidd, Milwaukee Bucks

Seventh: Tom Thibodeau

I'm not saying an award vote proves anything but Kidd's 1st 2 years as a HC have been as good as Thibs (based upon talent) and his team actually beat a higher seeded team in the play-offs. Why dismiss the possibility that he could be a better coach?

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“Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.”- JD Vance
“My god, what an !diot.”- JD Vance tweet on Trump
“I’m a ‘Never Trump’ guy”- JD Vance

Glad you said it, that coach voting means nothing.

Thibs is a better coach than Kidd.

Kidd is a decent coach and one day he may be better than Thibs, but to say that he is now is just silly.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Right now he is a better coach

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“Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.”- JD Vance
“My god, what an !diot.”- JD Vance tweet on Trump
“I’m a ‘Never Trump’ guy”- JD Vance

Thibs is obviously a good coach. Great X's and O's. Just lacks the personality to have a long term impact on a pro team. He is the NBA version of Jim Harbaugh. He has a short shelf life.

.

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Ben Simmons is a liability: check
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Sure but let's not conflate things either. Butler's development under Thibs (or not, according to maybe you and LTG) is distinct from the problem of playing Deng too many minutes. "First round pick" is a bit misleading when you talk about playing time; a lottery pick should ostensibly play a ton right from the start, but late round picks typically take longer to find their niche, that's assuming they even find they belong in the league in the first place. There's a reason they're drafted so late. To us it looks like a rookie is losing valuable time while sitting on the bench, but maybe to Thibs both Butler and later Mirotic dont understand where to be on the floor and they're clogging up lanes or something as a result.

Overall I think you guys might not be seeing that elite coaches can still have faults. Thibs has his faults to be sure, but it's not like the existence of faults takes a coach out elite status. Also, I think it's reasonable to debate how much of an influence a coach has on a player's development, but I find it completely unreasonable to imply that a coach had zero influence on the development of several of his core players on a team with sustained success like the Bulls

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T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

If Thibs could recruit, he would be a tremendous college coach.

It's not silly to suggest it. Kidd out coached Thibs during that Bucks series. The Bulls were better at 4 of the 5 starting spots and the series was a lot tougher than it had to be, given the disparity in talent.

I just pulled up three publications from last yr. Each one had the Bucks winning between 26 and 28 games. They won 40. Mind you that's 40 games while missing 2 of 5 (Sanders and Parker)starters for most of the yr. They also traded the guy Brandon Knight, who was arguably their best player at the time.
The Bulls roster from the previous yr was still better than the one Milwaukee took into the playoffs.

Kidd did a much better job than Thibs last yr. Milwaukee nearly tripled their win total from the previous yr.

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Vegan, I agree that even elite coaches have faults, but Thibs has too many to be considered an elite coach. As a defensive coach, he is one of the best in the game. I've never had a problem with his defensive schemes. That's only one facet of the game though.

I understand what you're saying about player development, but Butler looked like he belonged the second he began receiving regular playing time. This coincidentally, occurred at the time Deng was injured. How much of that credit belongs to Thibs?

I'm glad that you referenced Popovich earlier. Look at what he did with Kawhi Leonard. Leonard as a twenty yr old rookie, was a starter on a championship level team. That's development. He didn't have him rotting away on the bench, as Thibs did with Butler.

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From everything I have read, Jimmy Butler is one of the most self-motivated players in the league. He worked his a$$ off going into his 2nd year and has apparently continued that even after signing a big contract.

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“Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.”- JD Vance
“My god, what an !diot.”- JD Vance tweet on Trump
“I’m a ‘Never Trump’ guy”- JD Vance

I would agree that Thibs influenced many core players. The effort was definitely there. However, can that be sustained season after season, 82 games per year? Especially when the end results are so disappointing? Thibs is a strange dude and he wears on the players (IMO). I don't expect perfection from any coach, but given his notable faults I think the term elite is a bit of a stretch for a guy who's success is limited to regular season games.

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“Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.”- JD Vance
“My god, what an !diot.”- JD Vance tweet on Trump
“I’m a ‘Never Trump’ guy”- JD Vance

I am not sold on Kidd doing a better job than Thibs in that series, over the course of the year, maybe. But one year does not make him a better coach than Thibs.

In that series the Bulls jumped out to a huge series lead. Was Kidd doing a better job then than Thibs? Or was he in the clinching game for the Bulls? The Bulls grew lazy and looked past the Bucks in the middle of that series. I don't think that is due to Thibs as much as it is due to the players.

Maybe in a few years Kidd will be a better coach than Thibs, but not currently.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

The yr Rose first blew is knee out is a perfect example of Thibs weakness as a coach. The series against Philly. The Bulls were a #1 seed that yr. Philly was an 8th seed. Rose missed 27 of 66 games that yr, yet the Bulls were still able to garner a #1 seed. They should have been able to get to the second round without Rose. Thibs didn't catch much flak for losing that series because everyone was caught in Rose's injury. If he is the great coach that everyone on here keeps saying that he is, how do you lose that series? to an 8th seed that if memory serves correctly was under .500

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