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Terry's Peeps
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:30 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It's also not anyones fault but his own that he stayed in Oakland.

If Oakland is a limiting factor then go someplace else.


But he's sort of become bigger than just an executive in Oakland, hasn't he? I thought he owns a stake in the team itself, among other perks. Always assumed he stayed there because, relative to other GMs, he's got it made in Oakland.


True.

If the team doesn't do well, the payroll is the problem.

If the team does well, he's a genius who overcame the odds.

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rogers park bryan
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:33 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It's also not anyones fault but his own that he stayed in Oakland.

If Oakland is a limiting factor then go someplace else.


But he's sort of become bigger than just an executive in Oakland, hasn't he? I thought he owns a stake in the team itself, among other perks. Always assumed he stayed there because, relative to other GMs, he's got it made in Oakland.


True.

If the team doesn't do well, the payroll is the problem.

If the team does well, he's a genius who overcame the odds.

Absolutely. And to support this point, he was this close to taking the Boston Job (before they had won WS) and backed out.

Billy Beane doesnt need that kind of scrutiny
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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:33 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It's also not anyones fault but his own that he stayed in Oakland.

If Oakland is a limiting factor then go someplace else.


But he's sort of become bigger than just an executive in Oakland, hasn't he? I thought he owns a stake in the team itself, among other perks. Always assumed he stayed there because, relative to other GMs, he's got it made in Oakland.
I'm fine with him staying where it makes him happy.

You just can't then apologize for him about things that were clearly in his control.

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City of Fools
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:34 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
It's not really a stretch considering the regular season success he's had with the lowest payrolls in baseball. He has an eye for talent.
The A's were a dynasty only a little while before Beane got there. I don't know where the idea comes from that it is impossible to win there.

I think they had a pretty high payroll in the dynasty years. Like maybe the highest in baseball.

they had very high payrolls. Anyone who is ignorant of that should study the A's history more. They spent money freely in the nineties and Sandy Alderson consistently screwed everything up. Then they stopped spending money after 97 completely. Beane stayed in Oakland because he owes them a championship, and I wouldn't put it past him to achieve it.

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:35 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
Beane stayed in Oakland because he owes them a championship, and I wouldn't put it past him to achieve it.
His bosses seem to put it past him.

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City of Fools
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:36 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
Beane stayed in Oakland because he owes them a championship, and I wouldn't put it past him to achieve it.
His bosses seem to put it past him.

the randomness of baseball playoffs have put it past him. I've followed that team religiously and they had enough to win it all a few times. If he wins a championship, is he a far better GM? Of course not.

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:37 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
Beane stayed in Oakland because he owes them a championship, and I wouldn't put it past him to achieve it.
His bosses seem to put it past him.

the randomness of baseball playoffs have put it past him. I've followed that team religiously and they had enough to win it all a few times.
So have a lot of teams.
City of Fools wrote:
If he wins a championship, is he a far better GM? Of course not.
Of course he is.

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City of Fools
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:19 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
Beane stayed in Oakland because he owes them a championship, and I wouldn't put it past him to achieve it.
His bosses seem to put it past him.

the randomness of baseball playoffs have put it past him. I've followed that team religiously and they had enough to win it all a few times.
So have a lot of teams.
City of Fools wrote:
If he wins a championship, is he a far better GM? Of course not.
Of course he is.

so he's a better GM for winning a random contest? Or are GM's better for getting you to the random contest more often?

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leashyourkids
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:27 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
Beane stayed in Oakland because he owes them a championship, and I wouldn't put it past him to achieve it.
His bosses seem to put it past him.

the randomness of baseball playoffs have put it past him. I've followed that team religiously and they had enough to win it all a few times.
So have a lot of teams.
City of Fools wrote:
If he wins a championship, is he a far better GM? Of course not.
Of course he is.


I don't really care how anyone feels about Billy Beane, as I don't have strong feelings about the Oakland A's one way or the other. But why does it always have to be black and white like this? If we are ranking him historically based on his body of work, then yes, championships should be taken into consideration. If we are talking about who you would hire moving forward, it's an extremely complicated question that entails a lot more than "who won more championships?" By that logic, one would take Eli Manning in his prime over Peyton Manning or Dan Marino.

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:27 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
so he's a better GM for winning a random contest? Or are GM's better for getting you to the random contest more often?
If you win the World Series your resume is significantly improved.

The whole concept that playoff success doesn't matter in baseball is stupid. The goal is not to make the most playoff appearances.

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:30 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
I don't really care how anyone feels about Billy Beane, as I don't have strong feelings about the Oakland A's one way or the other. But why does it always have to be black and white like this? If we are ranking him historically based on his body of work, then yes, championships should be taken into consideration. If we are talking about who you would hire moving forward, it's an extremely complicated question that entails a lot more than "who won more championships?" By that logic, one would take Eli Manning in his prime over Peyton Manning or Dan Marino.
No one is saying "Championship are all that matter". They are saying that championships do matter.

Not to mention, that not only does Beane lack a championship, but his teams have been pretty much garbage in the playoffs the whole time.

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City of Fools
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:32 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
so he's a better GM for winning a random contest? Or are GM's better for getting you to the random contest more often?
If you win the World Series your resume is significantly improved.

The whole concept that playoff success doesn't matter in baseball is stupid. The goal is not to make the most playoff appearances.

who's the best GM? John Schuerholz, John Hart or Theo Epstein?

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:35 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
so he's a better GM for winning a random contest? Or are GM's better for getting you to the random contest more often?
If you win the World Series your resume is significantly improved.

The whole concept that playoff success doesn't matter in baseball is stupid. The goal is not to make the most playoff appearances.

who's the best GM? John Schuerholz, John Hart or Theo Epstein?
Theo.

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City of Fools
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:35 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
so he's a better GM for winning a random contest? Or are GM's better for getting you to the random contest more often?
If you win the World Series your resume is significantly improved.

The whole concept that playoff success doesn't matter in baseball is stupid. The goal is not to make the most playoff appearances.

who's the best GM? John Schuerholz, John Hart or Theo Epstein?
Theo.

we'll agree to disagree.

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Chus
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:17 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
If you win the World Series your resume is significantly improved.

The whole concept that playoff success doesn't matter in baseball is stupid. The goal is not to make the most playoff appearances.

who's the best GM? John Schuerholz, John Hart or Theo Epstein?
Theo.

we'll agree to disagree.


Hawg vibe.

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good dolphin
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:46 pm 
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I went to school with a guy who had no friends, never got laid and ultimately failed out named Boston Job

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City of Fools
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:48 pm 
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Chus wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:

who's the best GM? John Schuerholz, John Hart or Theo Epstein?
Theo.

we'll agree to disagree.


Hawg vibe.

this seems to be a bad time to argue with the almighty Theo.

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:49 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I don't really care how anyone feels about Billy Beane, as I don't have strong feelings about the Oakland A's one way or the other. But why does it always have to be black and white like this? If we are ranking him historically based on his body of work, then yes, championships should be taken into consideration. If we are talking about who you would hire moving forward, it's an extremely complicated question that entails a lot more than "who won more championships?" By that logic, one would take Eli Manning in his prime over Peyton Manning or Dan Marino.
No one is saying "Championship are all that matter". They are saying that championships do matter.

Not to mention, that not only does Beane lack a championship, but his teams have been pretty much garbage in the playoffs the whole time.


Roster building and maximizing resources matter too.

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FavreFan
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:58 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
so he's a better GM for winning a random contest? Or are GM's better for getting you to the random contest more often?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

This is awesome.

The GM's ENTIRE JOB is to win that random contest! :lol: :lol:

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Terry's Peeps
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:14 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
so he's a better GM for winning a random contest? Or are GM's better for getting you to the random contest more often?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

This is awesome.

The GM's ENTIRE JOB is to win that random contest! :lol: :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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City of Fools
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:18 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
so he's a better GM for winning a random contest? Or are GM's better for getting you to the random contest more often?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

This is awesome.

The GM's ENTIRE JOB is to win that random contest! :lol: :lol:

so, the GM with the best constructed team should win every time!

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:19 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
so he's a better GM for winning a random contest? Or are GM's better for getting you to the random contest more often?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

This is awesome.

The GM's ENTIRE JOB is to win that random contest! :lol: :lol:

so, the GM with the best constructed team should win every time!
Not every time, but at least some time they probably should.

Like Kenny did...

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City of Fools
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:23 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
so he's a better GM for winning a random contest? Or are GM's better for getting you to the random contest more often?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

This is awesome.

The GM's ENTIRE JOB is to win that random contest! :lol: :lol:

so, the GM with the best constructed team should win every time!
Not every time, but at least some time they probably should.

Like Kenny did...

If Kenny put that pitching staff together then he deserves a lot of credit. My thought process is, if the team was good enough to win in the regular season, and they are free of injuries, it's more in the hands of the manager at the end. And perhaps that is Beane's downfall.

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312player
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:44 pm 
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Beane has made some really bad moves last few years..He's still an upgrade over Rick Hahn.

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312player
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:44 pm 
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Beane has made some really bad moves last few years..He's still an upgrade over Rick Hahn.

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City of Fools
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:45 pm 
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312player wrote:
Beane has made some really bad moves last few years..He's still an upgrade over Rick Hahn.

I'd be curious what other Sox fans say...

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Curious Hair
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:46 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The A's were a dynasty only a little while before Beane got there. I don't know where the idea comes from that it is impossible to win there.


The Bash Brothers A's had Levi's money to play with before being sold to a consortium of comparatively cash-poor owners. Also, as baseball revenue streams exploded, the A's couldn't keep up.

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:47 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The A's were a dynasty only a little while before Beane got there. I don't know where the idea comes from that it is impossible to win there.


The Bash Brothers A's had Levi's money to play with before being sold to a consortium of comparatively cash-poor owners.
Yeah, but that then gets back to the idea that Beane should have left if he was at a place he didn't think he could win the World Series at.

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City of Fools
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:01 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The A's were a dynasty only a little while before Beane got there. I don't know where the idea comes from that it is impossible to win there.


The Bash Brothers A's had Levi's money to play with before being sold to a consortium of comparatively cash-poor owners.
Yeah, but that then gets back to the idea that Beane should have left if he was at a place he didn't think he could win the World Series at.

I believe Billy's egotistical enough to believe he can win one.

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312player
 Post subject: Re: Billy Beane!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:19 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
312player wrote:
Beane has made some really bad moves last few years..He's still an upgrade over Rick Hahn.

I'd be curious what other Sox fans say...




They are a scarce bunch, hard to find any these days.

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