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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:28 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
Same guy he didn't want. Phil got it right even though we thought he was nuts.
They just need like two more guys better than Melo and they could be a title team.



I'm sure his Hall of Fame speech will contain an apology for Raymond Felton, Amare Stoudamire, and Pablo Prigioni. I'm sure the world will forever hold him responsible for not winning a championship with these All Stars.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:20 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
Same guy he didn't want. Phil got it right even though we thought he was nuts.
They just need like two more guys better than Melo and they could be a title team.



I'm sure his Hall of Fame speech will contain an apology for Raymond Felton, Amare Stoudamire, and Pablo Prigioni. I'm sure the world will forever hold him responsible for not winning a championship with these All Stars.
Oh, the teammates he chose? Those guys?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:36 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
Same guy he didn't want. Phil got it right even though we thought he was nuts.
They just need like two more guys better than Melo and they could be a title team.



I'm sure his Hall of Fame speech will contain an apology for Raymond Felton, Amare Stoudamire, and Pablo Prigioni. I'm sure the world will forever hold him responsible for not winning a championship with these All Stars.
Oh, the teammates he chose? Those guys?
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
Same guy he didn't want. Phil got it right even though we thought he was nuts.
They just need like two more guys better than Melo and they could be a title team.



I'm sure his Hall of Fame speech will contain an apology for Raymond Felton, Amare Stoudamire, and Pablo Prigioni. I'm sure the world will forever hold him responsible for not winning a championship with these All Stars.
Oh, the teammates he chose? Those guys?


He actually was traded to the Knicks. His choosing to play with them has nothing to do with the fact that you're not going to win a championship with those guys starting. My point about needing better players is validated by just about anyone that knows anything about basketball. Anthony Davis is about to miss the playoffs for the 4th year out of 5. He only made it last year because Westbrook and Durant missed significant parts of the season.

Is he also a loser? or does he need better players?

Carmelo Anthony made the playoffs his first 9 years.

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Last edited by long time guy on Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:38 pm 
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Which team did he resign with again?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:38 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
He actually was traded to the Knicks.


A trade he forced.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:41 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
He actually was traded to the Knicks.
He literally refused to go anywhere else, signed an extension that kept him there a long time, and resigned there too.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:48 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Which team did he resign with again?


He resigned for more money, not necessarily to play with Pablo Prigioni. If he could have taken the same money from the Bulls he would have. He forced a trade from Denver for the purpose of playing for a team that could win. Stoudamire was playing at an MVP level at the time and they believed they would be able to acquire Chris Paul.

Is Anthony a bum or not? That is the essential question. If you believe the guy is a bum because he maximized his earning potential then you would be wrong.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:57 pm 
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He is a bum. He doesn't care about winning. He has never taken himself to that next level. He is a scorer. Not a star.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:00 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
He actually was traded to the Knicks.


A trade he forced.


He is not the only guy that has forced management's hand. Denver didn't believe that they could resign him and thus they traded him. For all the talk the losingness of Carmelo Anthony, his purpose for leaving Denver was to win. They'd plateaued as a team and he felt it was time to roll.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:01 pm 
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IMU wrote:
He is a bum. He doesn't care about winning. He has never taken himself to that next level. He is a scorer. Not a star.


The guy has been on multiple all star teams. He has also been on several Olympic teams. If your assertion is correct then how has that happened?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:02 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
For all the talk the losingness of Carmelo Anthony, his purpose for leaving Denver was to win.
No it was not. He could have picked almost any other team if he wanted that.

The purpose of going to NY was to help his wifes career and to live in NY.

Also, if he really wanted to win, he doesn't force a trade at all which screwed over the Knicks by giving up so much.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:03 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
IMU wrote:
He is a bum. He doesn't care about winning. He has never taken himself to that next level. He is a scorer. Not a star.


The guy has been on multiple all star teams. He has also been on several Olympic teams. If your assertion is correct then how has that happened?


He is a bum slayer.

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Not over yet.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:04 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
For all the talk the losingness of Carmelo Anthony, his purpose for leaving Denver was to win.
No it was not. He could have picked almost any other team if he wanted that.

The purpose of going to NY was to help his wifes career and to live in NY.

Also, if he really wanted to win, he doesn't force a trade at all which screwed over the Knicks by giving up so much.



He is the GM of the Knicks also? That's a lot of power to place in a guy's hand that really is not that good.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:05 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
He is the GM of the Knicks also? That's a lot of power to place in a guy's hand that really is not that good.
Agreed. It was dumb.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:08 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
IMU wrote:
He is a bum. He doesn't care about winning. He has never taken himself to that next level. He is a scorer. Not a star.


The guy has been on multiple all star teams. He has also been on several Olympic teams. If your assertion is correct then how has that happened?


He is a bum slayer.


At his peak he was easily a top ten player. In some years he was a top five player.

His teams have improved in the two places that he has played. They have not won a championship nor ever really got close, but That is more a product of the teams that he has played on as opposed to him. Getting to playoffs with some of the teams that he has played on is an accomplishment.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:24 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
He has also been on several Olympic teams.

Where even during his prime he wasn't a primary option. He also has the second lowest FG% on the 2008 team.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:15 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
What is Goff's fascination with getting Carmelo as many shots as he can? Hasn't this proven to be a very poor way to actually have a relevant team in the NBA? I understand that Carmelo is a very skilled offensive player but the Knicks have been bad, and the Nuggets didn't exactly light the world on fire getting him the ball and letting him be "Carmelo Mother effing Anthony". In fact, the best the Knicks have looked has been when Carmelo hasn't been the only offense. Now, this seems to be a backlash about Jeremy Lin but any NBA expert who watched as much Knicks basketball as Goff would know that it wasn't just Lin who stepped up but other players. Lin had a few big shots but the actual team worked better.

So, Jason Goff, do you think a team that just has Carmelo shooting as much as possible can win an NBA title? If so, why have his teams been so far from the elite teams? I'm a Carmelo fan too but it's becoming pretty apparent that "Get the ball to Carmelo and win" isn't really working.

Note: Thread idea stolen from shirtless driver.



I hope this does it for you?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:16 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
Goff is the Score's resident NBA Expert and Bulls Insider.

That's all you need to know.
I am a fan of Goff's NBA stuff in general though. He's better than anyone else on the Score.

I just don't get the Carmelo Anthony stance like he's proven himself to be so good that building your whole team around getting him the ball will make your team win a ton of games.



The hypocrisy and spin never ceases to amaze.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:17 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
I'm glad that you brought up Brick because he is the ringleader of the absolute argument. It's championship or bust with him until it's not of course. I have exposed the hypocrisy that's all.


Still waiting on that...

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:22 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I'm glad that you brought up Brick because he is the ringleader of the absolute argument. It's championship or bust with him until it's not of course. I have exposed the hypocrisy that's all.


Still waiting on that...


A master of the absolute until he isn't. Did you say those exact words nope but that's why god created inferences. The statements attesting to that are easily attainable.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:28 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Goff's point was that if you get him the ball the Knicks are a better team. This point was made during a time when a lot of people were saying that the ball needed to be in the hands of Jeremy Lin and not Carmelo Anthony. This is great example of revisionist history. He never said that the Knicks would win a championship by simply getting him the ball.
The bolded section is why his point was bad. The Knicks aren't a championship contender with "Just Get The Ball To Anthony". Why not try something different? It may work, but we know what doesn't work and that is what Goff was screaming for the Knicks to do.



Maybe this works a little better for you. They won 54 games that year yet still weren't considered by you to be contender. Sounds like championship or bust to me. Also second in the East that year but not a contender in your eyes. Sounds eerily like championship or bust does it. I know you didn't use exactly those words but it isn't preschool is it. That is the sort of place where everything has to be literal.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:31 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Goff's point was that if you get him the ball the Knicks are a better team. This point was made during a time when a lot of people were saying that the ball needed to be in the hands of Jeremy Lin and not Carmelo Anthony. This is great example of revisionist history. He never said that the Knicks would win a championship by simply getting him the ball.
The bolded section is why his point was bad. The Knicks aren't a championship contender with "Just Get The Ball To Anthony". Why not try something different? It may work, but we know what doesn't work and that is what Goff was screaming for the Knicks to do.



Maybe this works a little better for you. They won 54 games that year yet still weren't considered by you to be contender. Sounds like championship or bust to me. Also second in the East that year but not a contender in your eyes. Sounds eerily like championship or bust does it. I know you didn't use exactly those words but it isn't preschool is it. That is the sort of place where everything has to be literal.
So that is still a no.

There is a big difference between "championship or bust" and "be a championship contender".

Why don't you just admit that I never said championship or bust? I'm sure you saw the many posts I made talking about playoff performance. If I was saying "championship or bust" I would have just said "Never won a ring".

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:35 pm 
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long time guy,
Time to give up the "master of spin" thing with this performance of yours.

The fact is that I never said championship or bust, or mentioned anything close to it. I mentioned his playoff performance though but that clearly isn't the same thing.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:16 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
They had the easiest schedule in the league at the time. As soon as Lin had to match up with better guards he got tattoed. It is no accident that the new coach has taken the ball out of his hands, not excepted his turnover tendencies (as D'Antoni did) and they are winning. They are also beating better teams during this stretch Philadelphia, Atlanta than what occurred during the whole Linsanity craze yet there are people still bashing Carmelo Anthony. It was stupid to hand the ball over to a guy that glorified D-League call up. A lot of guys have had there exceptional nights against Jeremy Lin but it was Carmelo Anthony that got criticized for not playing defense. Check the numbers
This isn't a Lin vs. Carmelo debate. It's a Carmelo vs. "Just get Carmelo the damn ball and let him work" debate.

Goff treated Carmelo like he earned the status of a Kobe or Lebron or even Rose. Carmelo has played on average to below average teams being the featured guy. Get Carmelo the ball and let him do his thing hasn't worked well since college.



I provide for the class the ramblings of Brick. Get ready. Below average yet they made the playoffs every year for the first time. 2nd in the west a few times but not championship or bust. Wasn't explicitly stated. HMMM

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:20 pm 
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You were wrong. Get over it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:22 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Carmelo has taken a bum rap for the Knicks struggles and conversely Lin has received too much of the credit. The Knick resurgence under Lin occurred during a period in which they had the easiest schedule in the league (check the schedule) As soon as the schedule and level of point guard improved Lin was exposed. Carmelo Anthony is taking heat because of last year's decision regarding impending free agency. At least he allowed Denver an opportunity to receive something in exchange for exiting the team. Everyone is quick to jump on the doesn't make the team better garbage but does anyone remember what Denver was prior to him joining the team. Is anyone paying attention to what Denver is now. The Knick have not drastically improved under him but it is too early to throw the towel in on them. As it was way too early for D'Antoni to hand the team over to a b-rate guard one step removed from the D-League. It's funny how Woodson has figured out the error of D'Antoni's ways and the Knicks are playing better ball with Anthony leading the way. The Anthony detractors however are still holding to the fallacious consensus that he is hurting the team
You seriously need to listen to what this thread about.

The point is that Carmelo has done nothing to have a strategy of "Just get the ball to Carmelo and let him do what he does". It hasn't ever been a winning formula. He puts up good numbers, and he's a really good player, but it just hasn't worked. Stop comparing him to Lin. Lin just happened. We have a major body of work on Carmelo that shows that he can't just put a team on his back and make them among the elite of the league. His style has put up some impressive numbers but his teams haven't been impressive. Is that just bad luck? Maybe. Is that because of his style? Maybe.

The point is that Goff seems to think that just getting the ball to Carmelo is a roadmap for success in the league. When has that ever been true?



Once again it sounds like championship or bust to me. Brick defenders please unite. I know this is the part of the show where you feign disinterest. Sort like not watching the Bernstein show yet feeling a need to comment anyway. Always done in true non-sequitor like fashion as a means of distracting.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:24 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
You were wrong. Get over it.


it should be pretty familiar to those scoring at home. You used the same argument to suggest that Brandon Marshall really isn't that good either.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:26 pm 
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Great Thread.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:28 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
You were wrong. Get over it.


it should be pretty familiar to those scoring at home. You used the same argument to suggest that Brandon Marshall really isn't that good either.
That wasn't about championships either.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:28 pm 
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Reared on the Score wrote:
Great Thread.
Thank you for your input.

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